Needle (leaf) Plucking a taxus?

just.wing.it

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So I have seen and read different things on this topic....
....topic being removal of only old leaves (needles...I dunno what they are called) which is usually followed by wiring....

Some say do it in spring, during new growth....

Some say do it in autumn when growth has slowed...

Some probably say mid summer is fine too!

My inclination is to do this kind of work in fall or winter....as to allow the leaves to photosynthesize as much as possible during the growing season.
Also, I think I read that, generally speaking, autumn is the best time to style conifers....

Any thoughts??? :p
 

just.wing.it

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Maybe doing it in mid summer could allow enough time for next year's buds to set and be ready for spring???
Or even provide a full flush of growth!?
 

Wilson

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I hear you, I have plucked mine that is in the ground. I am still just growing out mine, so no real refinement has been achieved.
 

my nellie

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Could you provide a link to his technique. I have a small taxus cusp. I maybe ready to mess with.
https://yamadori.co.uk/tag/styling/
and he says : .......I removed about 30% of the foliage, and wired the rest.......Where I want back budding I have removed the inner needles on three year old wood.....
 

petegreg

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I saw the guys doing this this spring, when we had "repotting" meeting. It was an older tree. I've seen your backbudders and am not sure it's needed.
 

sorce

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I think your inclination is right...
Let em photosynthesize !

But I've been thinking about it recently.

If we're going to wire in fall......
It had better be significantly early enough to "take" some before winter sets in.
Or you may as well just wait till the heavy freezes are over.
Lessin you want your tree in a compromised state all winter for nothing !

What is your "regular" pruning for these anyway?
Maybe doing it in mid summer could allow enough time for next year's buds to set and be ready for spring???
Or even provide a full flush of growth!?

Here's what I noticed this year, which is fully changing my "timing".

Almost Everything began its summer dormancy, which was roughly 2 weeks long, directly at the solstice. 6/21

I think you can prune yourself into missing this dormancy period...
For example, pruning right before the rest, can trigger growth thru it.

But IMO...this short dormancy period is exactly what the tree needs to store energy for a second push of new growth, roots too!

This could be the reason some people have success repotting in fall or not.
Trees pruned and forced to grow thru that dormancy may not have enough energy to make enough fall roots.

So MY pruning will be completed as needed thru winter to before sapflow in spring, depending on the species..etc.

And as close as observation will get me to...
Directly before summer dormancy ends.

Prune/grow/rest.....prune/grow/rest.

It is at that time directly before summer dormancy ends that I would wire that tree.
Allow it's spring flush to gather resources, rest, then go to work.
Prune,wire....

Oh but I wouldn't remove needles till they got in the way of the wire. Except for on the inside of bends, junctions, anywhere too dense, or too thick...

But in all my wiring this year, I haven't thinned and skinned em...

Trying to leave AS much foliage as possible.

It's a big equation but I figure depending on a needle/leafs size, age, position and condition....you can figure a near exact amount of time you are adding to each "wired branch setting" by removing each one.

Call it one minute.

So for every leaf you remove, you have to leave wire on for one minute longer in order for the branch to set.

I don't know about you....
But if I see a branch spring back up out of the design, it bugs the hell out of me. Even if just by a teeny little...ATD!

And that teeny little could have been because you needed to leave that wire on one more minute....

Or...

Not have removed that one damn needle!

Which could have you in a position to spend another entire day wiring the whole tree because of that one damn needle! (Per branch)

So no way in hell I'm gonna figure the equation....
But I'll never mindlessly remove foliage without good reason either....

Besides...

Wiring around the needles will greatly improve your skills anyway!

Sorce
 

my nellie

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I like your thinking, Sorce!
... ...But in all my wiring this year, I haven't thinned and skinned em...
Trying to leave AS much foliage as possible... ...
It's a big equation... ... ... So no way in hell I'm gonna figure the equation....
But I'll never mindlessly remove foliage without good reason either....
Besides...
Wiring around the needles will greatly improve your skills anyway!
The same goes with me.
I try not to mindlessly remove foliage for the purpose of wiring.
 

just.wing.it

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I think your inclination is right...
Let em photosynthesize !

But I've been thinking about it recently.

If we're going to wire in fall......
It had better be significantly early enough to "take" some before winter sets in.
Or you may as well just wait till the heavy freezes are over.
Lessin you want your tree in a compromised state all winter for nothing !

What is your "regular" pruning for these anyway?


Here's what I noticed this year, which is fully changing my "timing".

Almost Everything began its summer dormancy, which was roughly 2 weeks long, directly at the solstice. 6/21

I think you can prune yourself into missing this dormancy period...
For example, pruning right before the rest, can trigger growth thru it.

But IMO...this short dormancy period is exactly what the tree needs to store energy for a second push of new growth, roots too!

This could be the reason some people have success repotting in fall or not.
Trees pruned and forced to grow thru that dormancy may not have enough energy to make enough fall roots.

So MY pruning will be completed as needed thru winter to before sapflow in spring, depending on the species..etc.

And as close as observation will get me to...
Directly before summer dormancy ends.

Prune/grow/rest.....prune/grow/rest.

It is at that time directly before summer dormancy ends that I would wire that tree.
Allow it's spring flush to gather resources, rest, then go to work.
Prune,wire....

Oh but I wouldn't remove needles till they got in the way of the wire. Except for on the inside of bends, junctions, anywhere too dense, or too thick...

But in all my wiring this year, I haven't thinned and skinned em...

Trying to leave AS much foliage as possible.

It's a big equation but I figure depending on a needle/leafs size, age, position and condition....you can figure a near exact amount of time you are adding to each "wired branch setting" by removing each one.

Call it one minute.

So for every leaf you remove, you have to leave wire on for one minute longer in order for the branch to set.

I don't know about you....
But if I see a branch spring back up out of the design, it bugs the hell out of me. Even if just by a teeny little...ATD!

And that teeny little could have been because you needed to leave that wire on one more minute....

Or...

Not have removed that one damn needle!

Which could have you in a position to spend another entire day wiring the whole tree because of that one damn needle! (Per branch)

So no way in hell I'm gonna figure the equation....
But I'll never mindlessly remove foliage without good reason either....

Besides...

Wiring around the needles will greatly improve your skills anyway!

Sorce
What I noticed this year after going hard on the roots of 2 of them, is that they didn't put on as much foliar growth as last year.
I guess its not too surprising...
But I've read that over winter is a good time to wire conifers, like taxus, because the branches are nice and flexy at that time of year, and the cambium layer won't slip as easy.

As far as pruning, I haven't really set anything in stone, as I've been doing some different things with different yews. I will have a better handle on that by this winter, when they shut down.
I did some long shoot pruning on one that I'm chasing back...
I haven't pruned one at all...
I pruned, needle plucked, wired and styled 3 this summer.
And the other 2 have not been touched at all because they're recovering for a whole year+ from being dug from the ground, and I have not seen the root base of either one, yet.....suspense...

For example:
This is the one that I cut back and styled severely last year in late September.
IMAG2393_1.jpg
Here it is a few weeks ago....
IMAG3322.jpg

So, this one is one that I bare rooted this spring, and that is all so far this year.
All the new growth was even throughout the tree, which is great, all shoots grew to about 2-3 inches long.
It took a long mid summer break, and is now beginning to open some backbuds.
I expect it to grow well into October.
I'll wait till the dead of winter to do anything to it, I think.
It will need some thinning, some needle plucking, and wiring of the new shoots from this year, which are my secondary branches in most cases.
I will also have to remove and redo some wiring from last year, if it's biting in.

So, in summary, I guess I'm leaning towards a schedule that just allows them to grow free all spring summer and fall, then I'll beat em up in January or February each year.

With that said, I'll be amending this next year depending on how my 3 yews, which were wired and styled this summer, pan out.

The 2 collected ones, I won't be styling them, only repotting next spring.
 
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sorce

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I like your thinking, Sorce!The same goes with me.
I try not to mindlessly remove foliage for the purpose of wiring.

The more important of my recent thoughts....

We see the pros do it.....
So we do?

I think gauging the ACTUAL health of a tree is what sets apart a true professional.

That's what allows them to remove everything and make it super easy to wire, because a responsible one...
Will do it when the tree can take it.

As "hobbyists" we don't have..

The health gauge..1.
Good wire and/or Wiring skills...2.
And appropriate aftercare ability..3.

To do exactly the same, so we must compensate.

If we are not sure we have at least 2 of those three things going for us....
We will fail.

On health gauge...

What I was just commending @chicago1980 for to @KiwiPlantGuy ....

I bought my Shimpaku this spring and met Hector there for the spring haul.
At the time my juniper knowledge was of dead procumbems Nana.
They have completely different foliage, and I've never seen one grow. Same more or less for the juvenile ERC I keep.

So in going over how my Shimpaku had...
"Three different strengths of foliage present"
If not four...
Weak juvenile growth was identified.
Vigorous growth was identified.
And super vigorous growth with runners was identified.
Is it..
More than 60% of the trees energy is in those runners?

I came away armed. 10 minutes!


On good wire/wiring skills.

Have em!
Be able to ID good wire!

I have been paying more conscious attention to my branch holding hand.
Applying the right pressure to the last 2 coils as Mirai Live has me taught. Has me conscious.
Using the lever which a long length of wire allows you.
Realizing it takes hours. Spending the time it takes to run it properly.

Realizing none of this matters if you have shitty wire!


On aftercare.....

Good Fucking luck!

That's the one I skip!:eek:

For now!o_O

Sorce
 

just.wing.it

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One of my other yews, that I don't have pictures of right now, was also barerooted this spring, and I did do some guy wiring to pull future main branches downward...
That one has no inner foliage, and I'm chasing it back.
It grew much longer, stronger shoots that the one above, but not as many.
I cut those strong shoots back a few weeks ago, to encourage backbuds to activate and open, asap.
 

just.wing.it

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We see the pros do it.....
So we do?
Well, that's not my M.O.
I have only plucked to make wiring easier, in the past....
But this thread was sparked by a Tony Tickle video in which, he says that he plucks his needles to encourage back budding and tight ramification in the foliage pads.
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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The more important of my recent thoughts....

We see the pros do it.....
So we do?

I think gauging the ACTUAL health of a tree is what sets apart a true professional.

That's what allows them to remove everything and make it super easy to wire, because a responsible one...
Will do it when the tree can take it.

As "hobbyists" we don't have..

The health gauge..1.
Good wire and/or Wiring skills...2.
And appropriate aftercare ability..3.

To do exactly the same, so we must compensate.

If we are not sure we have at least 2 of those three things going for us....
We will fail.

On health gauge...

What I was just commending @chicago1980 for to @KiwiPlantGuy ....

I bought my Shimpaku this spring and met Hector there for the spring haul.
At the time my juniper knowledge was of dead procumbems Nana.
They have completely different foliage, and I've never seen one grow. Same more or less for the juvenile ERC I keep.

So in going over how my Shimpaku had...
"Three different strengths of foliage present"
If not four...
Weak juvenile growth was identified.
Vigorous growth was identified.
And super vigorous growth with runners was identified.
Is it..
More than 60% of the trees energy is in those runners?

I came away armed. 10 minutes!


On good wire/wiring skills.

Have em!
Be able to ID good wire!

I have been paying more conscious attention to my branch holding hand.
Applying the right pressure to the last 2 coils as Mirai Live has me taught. Has me conscious.
Using the lever which a long length of wire allows you.
Realizing it takes hours. Spending the time it takes to run it properly.

Realizing none of this matters if you have shitty wire!


On aftercare.....

Good Fucking luck!

That's the one I skip!:eek:

For now!o_O

Sorce
Hi Sorce,
I see my name mentioned so I have come over to play on your thread too.
I wonder of the 3 skills you talk about if anyone gets close to winning at any of them.
1 year in I am crap at wiring, awful at not spending money on trees that might have potential in 20 years, and OK at the whole 'gauge if the tree needs left alone and not played with for a year' versus 'healthy tree = can handle it'

As for the taxus, hmm, what does you 'gut' tell you to do?
Each time I look at my trees (sticks) I think to myself, "what the F..k am I doing talking to myself?"
Charles
 

sorce

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So, in summary, I guess I'm leaning towards a schedule that just allows them to grow free all spring summer and fall, then I'll beat em up in January or February each year.

I'm with that...

But first...

Taxus...an Elongating species...
Classified as ....

Storing energy in their vascular tissue.

I have experience with 3 dead ones.
2 old. One seedling. All collected.

Starts to make sense why people kill these so much, especially dug from the landscape.

Most of the foliage is usually sheared. And even if allowed to grow again, not long enough.
GP says he hadn't touched his AT ALL for ...5years?

Add...
You can tell looking at the swelling live veins of these that they have the energy to push a few friggin years off of stores.

That said, I would slow down EVERYWHERE POSSIBLE.

But not stop moving them forward in these younger years.

I think the spring schedule is good....
But not really for anything with any rootwork done.

One of the best things about yew is their DW.

For that reason..
PPB...keeping potential problems at Bay in the branching...
Should be done with a generous dose of...
I CAN ALWAYS CARVE THIS FAT SECTION BACK LATER.

I think as soon as you get each one of these young ones in good soil...with initial structure set...

You can let em go for the five years...
By then...You'll have a pot full of roots...
Which should allow you to finally get right into a hard restyle and twice yearly branch work.

......:eek::confused:

Sorce
 

sorce

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"what the F..k am I doing talking to myself?"

The more you talk to yourself the better your trees get!

If a newb should take one bit of advice and convert it to perfection.....

Spend every minute you want to do something to a tree, only THINKING about the tree.

People always complain about not having anything to do!

Stare at a tree and talk to yourself !

Every tree needs it!

Sorce
 

just.wing.it

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I'm with that...

But first...

Taxus...an Elongating species...
Classified as ....

Storing energy in their vascular tissue.

I have experience with 3 dead ones.
2 old. One seedling. All collected.

Starts to make sense why people kill these so much, especially dug from the landscape.

Most of the foliage is usually sheared. And even if allowed to grow again, not long enough.
GP says he hadn't touched his AT ALL for ...5years?

Add...
You can tell looking at the swelling live veins of these that they have the energy to push a few friggin years off of stores.

That said, I would slow down EVERYWHERE POSSIBLE.

But not stop moving them forward in these younger years.

I think the spring schedule is good....
But not really for anything with any rootwork done.

One of the best things about yew is their DW.

For that reason..
PPB...keeping potential problems at Bay in the branching...
Should be done with a generous dose of...
I CAN ALWAYS CARVE THIS FAT SECTION BACK LATER.

I think as soon as you get each one of these young ones in good soil...with initial structure set...

You can let em go for the five years...
By then...You'll have a pot full of roots...
Which should allow you to finally get right into a hard restyle and twice yearly branch work.

......:eek::confused:

Sorce
Yeah, I'm leaving the 2 collected ones in whatever soil they're in, not my mix, for at least another year.
Definitely no rush.
The 2 that I bare rooted will stay in their big round flower pots until the drainage slows noticeably, all good mix.
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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The more you talk to yourself the better your trees get!

If a newb should take one bit of advice and convert it to perfection.....

Spend every minute you want to do something to a tree, only THINKING about the tree.

People always complain about not having anything to do!

Stare at a tree and talk to yourself !

Every tree needs it!

Sorce
Hi Sorce,
Thank you for your kind words of enthusiasm. Yep, at least everyone has 2 friends in life ( me, myself and I). Just pick one and the other 2 follow unhappily along behind. Cut the wrong branch and wait for 1 friend to argue with the other.
Shoot, if you get agreement, have a long drink and enjoy, because it is a good day :)
Charles
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Well, that's not my M.O.
I have only plucked to make wiring easier, in the past....
But this thread was sparked by a Tony Tickle video in which, he says that he plucks his needles to encourage back budding and tight ramification in the foliage pads.

Hi Wing-it,
Nice trees by the way. Love the growth these guys put out.
Charles
 
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