Defoliate Chinese Elms
- Thread starter AZbonsai
- Start date
I always let my elms do their things naturally. In spring they are almost leafless, remaining old leaves will drop after new buds open. Then when yellowing I can take them from trees easily. Tearing green leaves can damage buds and cutting them with scissors is an ant work.
Chris Frechette
Yamadori
Ryan Neil says never ever defoliate any tree.
bonsai-ben
Mame
It's not a rift, it's a matter of what works in their back yards. Here in Florida, in my back yard, tropicals love defoliation. It's also kindof important for leaf reduction. 
But what works in their back yards on different species yes, of course, would be different.
But what works in their back yards on different species yes, of course, would be different.
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
I have a lot of different Elms here and I treat them all the same once acclimated for an entire year without problem. When the leaf shrivels and is dry enough they drop off quickly when I take a gloved hand to them and rub them off. If they come off easily and a few are still hesitating I snip off the remaining few.
I do the same process on all Elms, Fruits, Hackberry, and more with no problems.
The reason - I do not want dead decaying foliage on the substrate surface or surrounding ground or shelf. Nothing Scientific, I just find by controlling "waste" and keeping things tidy I see far less fungal and insect problems here.
It is of course more humid here then AZ so I might not be so picky there but I certainly would be more attentive if I lived further South as in Georgia, Alabama, or Florida.
I am not familiar with Ryan Neil's Climate in OR nor his thoughts on it although it "could be" or "most likely" is his overall care and use of chemicals is far different then mine.
Grimmy
Chris Frechette
Yamadori
Chris Frechette
Yamadori
Ah... it didn't paste at the time... he talks about defoliation at about 2:20
Thanks Grimmy. I like the idea of a clean bench myself! Not because of your reasons I think it has more to do with my AR.
The only pro I can see is as Grimmy stated to keep soil and surrounding clean. No cons till you are not tearing off green leaves. One of my elms in my cold room is half yellow. I will put it on newspapers, gently tap the foliage to help him drop yellow leaves, then blow out leaves from the soil and use tweezers to clean everything from soil properly. Might repeat it 2-3 times till spring.
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
Except in late fall when they turned colour.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Never heard of him, where he lives, and the kind of trees he cultivates, but here, he would be wrong all the way.
Elms, whether Chinese or else can be defoliated, almost at any time if they're healthy. They're one of the most resilient genus.
twisted trees
Omono
Ryan is wrong.
Chris Frechette
Yamadori
Ryan Neil of Bonsai Mirai is one of the top Bonsai Professionals in North America... based out of Portland, Oregon i think.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
GASP! LOL! Careful now! LOL!
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Boon says the same thing. Exceptions are in the late fall when the leaves are changing color or very rarely in preparation for a show. But he does not practice regular full defoliation of any tree, including tropicals and elms. He does practice partial outer canopy defoliation as do many professionals including Ryan Neil, Bjorn Bjorholm, Boon Manakitivipart, Keiji Fujikawa, and Peter Tea (among others). I’m a believer - since I adopted that approach the speed my trees have developed has increased enormously.
When my elms started to turn at the end of December, I defoliated them. If you choose to do so yours, you can minimize damage to the bud by 1) waiting until they start to turn because the petiole weakens at that time and 2) pulling the leaves backward along the branch. They should break off easily without damaging the emergent bud at the base of the petiole. If you see damage, it’s not time for fall defoliation.
Scott
Last edited:
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
If a leaf has turned colour in the fall, that is a sign that photosynthesis has stopped. Defoliation at this time does not harm the tree if done properly. Defoliation at other times on certain species is a respected technique to aid in reduction of leaf or needle size.
One of the positives of removing spent leaves or needles is prevention of disease or insect infestation. Another benefit is the clear vision for fall cutback and design work often done on some species at that time of year. Chinese elms can become very dense, very quickly when kept healthy.
The only cons i can think of are if it is done incorrectly ( too much for the health of the tree) ( damage from careless procedures) or at the wrong time ( ie: leaves or needles not hardened off). The usual cons if a procedure is improperly applied or carried out at the wrong time.
If the leaves are dropping because the tree has dried out then removing all the leaves would weaken or kill the tree.
So, the answer is related to the species in question, the condition of the tree, the time of year, the species and the desired outcome of applying a particular technique.
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
Total defoliating is seldom good. Except maybe trident. For broadleaf trees when colour has changed or for Chinese elms when part falls off it is good to defoliate in my opinion. Avoid fungus and gives possibilities to wire and cut back when winter is not severe.
Similar threads
