Bacterial? Rapid infection on japanese maple
- Thread starter Lars Grimm
- Start date
Lars Grimm
Chumono
I do own a cat. He hasn't shown too much interest in my plants before, but he roams around in the backyard at night so who knows what he does.
kouyou
Sapling
- Messages
- 38
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- 50
That's really interesting! I don't have any cats, but my neighbors do, and they clearly prefer the trees i have in wide grow-out boxes. The cats never seem to dig or play with the substrate, so I always let them be.
But the danger you've signaled never crossed my mind before -- Thank you @rockm !!
Time to put the mouse traps out! A pinched foot or tail will keep them away for good!
GGB
Masterpiece
be careful with that tree. I don't blame you for wanting to try to bring it back, but if it's infected you're just keeping the spores around your yard longer. Coming from a guy who has infected pine needles all over his yard. It's a shame when you doom a genus for yourself
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Here are a few more pictures from today. I went ahead and cut one of the branches off that was probably accessory and then made a longitudinal cut. I don't think the vasculature is involved, but you all be the judge.
Picture 1: Primary branch with blackened base.
Picture 2: Longitudinal cut.
Picture 3: Showing cross section
Picture 4: Peeled back the bark to show the black is just superficial.
Showing the whole tree dry now.
Picture 1: Primary branch with blackened base.
Picture 2: Longitudinal cut.
Picture 3: Showing cross section
Picture 4: Peeled back the bark to show the black is just superficial.
Showing the whole tree dry now.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
You know...I'm pretty sure I've seen branches turn black after pruning, for example if you prune and leave a stump with no node- the branch will die back to the next node and may turn black as it does so. That suggests your problem might actually have been something that severely damaged or killed the roots (or many roots). This would then lead to leaves dropping and perhaps whole branches dying back and turning black. The question then would be, what happened to the roots? Hard to imagine a single missed watering would kill the whole tree but then again, I don't deal with the kind of heat you get down there. Sure looks like everything on that left/top side is gone but maybe the branches on the right have a chance?
I'd probably pull it out of the pot and see what is going on down below (maybe wait a little bit and see if there are signs of any new buds).
I'd probably pull it out of the pot and see what is going on down below (maybe wait a little bit and see if there are signs of any new buds).
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I don't think that's V wilt. That typically doesn't kill a tree all at once. It also leaves behind profound black staining on the inside of branches.
V. wilt typically shuts down circulation of sap in some branches but not others, which leads to one section or branch dieing off. Then another over months, or even years...It typically doesn't kill an entire tree in five days...
V. wilt typically shuts down circulation of sap in some branches but not others, which leads to one section or branch dieing off. Then another over months, or even years...It typically doesn't kill an entire tree in five days...
kouyou
Sapling
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very sorry to see this happening @Lars Grimm
in the last photo that you just posted, the roots look too dark to me. do you have any picture(s) of the tree *before* you noticed any symptoms? maybe from this spring? or last fall? it would be nice to approximate how long the roots have been black like this for, just for the sake of discussion and clarity
when you first posted, like others my initial feeling was that the roots had completely, or almost completely failed (maybe from a day without water?) since the problem affected all of the leaves all at once, rather than in different areas. (it reacted in the same way that a branch does when you sever it from a tree, for example). but the black spots were throwing me off. now it seems like your roots have that same blackness.
edit: was it repotted this spring? (i.e. were the roots already compromised?)
i'm looking forward to seeing what conclusions our usual experts will arrive at with this new information!
and @Leo in N E Illinois hasn't chimed in yet!
in the last photo that you just posted, the roots look too dark to me. do you have any picture(s) of the tree *before* you noticed any symptoms? maybe from this spring? or last fall? it would be nice to approximate how long the roots have been black like this for, just for the sake of discussion and clarity
when you first posted, like others my initial feeling was that the roots had completely, or almost completely failed (maybe from a day without water?) since the problem affected all of the leaves all at once, rather than in different areas. (it reacted in the same way that a branch does when you sever it from a tree, for example). but the black spots were throwing me off. now it seems like your roots have that same blackness.
edit: was it repotted this spring? (i.e. were the roots already compromised?)
i'm looking forward to seeing what conclusions our usual experts will arrive at with this new information!
and @Leo in N E Illinois hasn't chimed in yet!
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I still think its root rot. You haven't shown any pictures to discount this and you still haven't shown close ups of the roots.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
I think the roots/base have always looked like this. Here is a thread from a while back showing the initial progression. You can see that it has always looked darker through a combination of exfoliating bark, moss, etc.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Will be very curious to see how this turns out, keep us posted please!
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
The color of the base is not at all what my concern is. What about the roots? Either take it out of the pot and look or don't. I'm done here. Best of luck.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Gotcha. I appreciate the insights. I am going to slip it out tomorrow and take a look at the roots. I'll post pictures then. Based on the collective feedback, I am coming around to the idea that something (heat, fungus, cat pee) hit the roots really hard.
Cable
Omono
I think Sorce is on the right track on this one.
Shima
Omono
Dark open soil and no moss to protect, Doesn't take long to bake roots.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
There was moss on it when it happened, but I took it off for the photos. Definitely dark soil though (pure akadama).
Lars Grimm
Chumono
I went ahead and slipped it out of the pot. I've never seen root rot in real life, but the roots didn't smell and they didn't look sodden. They looked a bit dessicated. I took a bunch of photos.
I went ahead and repotted it into a new container after removing a bunch of the old soil. I left all the roots in place and covered the surface with sphagnum. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. I guess just leave it and hope for the best?
I went ahead and repotted it into a new container after removing a bunch of the old soil. I left all the roots in place and covered the surface with sphagnum. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. I guess just leave it and hope for the best?
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
If you scratch the bark on the big surface roots, is there green cambium underneath? Those roots do look a little dark but it's hard to tell if that's from moisture/old moss/algae or the roots themselves are dark.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
kouyou
Sapling
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any updates @Lars Grimm ?
at first glance those roots look very dry and brittle to me (even where your akadama looks damp). the color of these roots i was just looking at might be a good point of comparison:
www.bonsainut.com
at first glance those roots look very dry and brittle to me (even where your akadama looks damp). the color of these roots i was just looking at might be a good point of comparison:
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