I don't like Bunjin...

[sorce]

Inbalance, a weathered trunk and subtle foliage are for me the key to good bunjing. Two trees I found online and have in my own resources folder to use as inspiration for some of my own trees:

View attachment 271798View attachment 271799

One I am working on which is a decade away from anything decent
View attachment 271800

I feel these 2 aren't bunjin for the foilage reason @Dav4 is talking about.

Great large trees with sparse foliage, but not literati.

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

Ok, boomer.

A mother is not their offspring. Judaism is the "mother" of Christianity, but a different religion. Penjing and bonsai are related, but different.

That is what I said, you just didn't catch it. Its really plain as day in black and white.

 

[penumbra]

For certain, the Japanese made it their own and pushed it the the perceived limit of its time

Its right here my friend.
Bye, bye

 

[Adair M]

I think one thing all literati trees must be is to be old. Age is one of those things that implies experience and wisdom - the characteristics of the “literati”.

I see many attempts where people take young whips with tall thin trunks and claim they’re going to make literati out of them. Just not possible. (Edited your add: Just not possible in a short timespan.)

I have a nice little JWP I hope makes a good literati some day in the future, but for now, it’s just too young:



Oh, it has a thin trunk, and it’s rather tall for its trunk diameter, but it still looks young. The bark, for the most part, is still the smooth grey JWP juvenile bark. Maybe in another decade it will attain some character.

Contrast my tree above to this one:



That tree looks old, doesn’t it?

I think the closest to literati I have right now is this one:

 

[penumbra]

I have a nice little JWP I hope makes a good literati some day in the future, but for now, it’s just too young:

It is none the less a beautiful bonsai by whatever moniker you choose.

 

[coh]

Its right here my friend.
Bye, bye

I've noticed that "OK boomer" has quickly become the insult du jour on the internet. My response has been to immediately block anyone who uses it.

As for bunjin...love the style but am not going to try to define it. I will say though, I Iook at the trees @Adair M posted and the first two look more like informal uprights, the third is more bunjin like in my opinion. But I don't think it really matters, I don't think you have to specify what style a tree is to enjoy or even show it. Too much worrying about labels.

@leatherback , this one is beautiful. Any idea where you got that image, whose tree it is?

 

[just.wing.it]

@Smoke ....
I'm sorry, and dont mean to be a nuisance, but what are you saying exactly?

 

[Colorado]

I think one thing all literati trees must be is to be old. Age is one of those things that implies experience and wisdom - the characteristics of the “literati”.

I see many attempts where people take young whips with tall thin trunks and claim they’re going to make literati out of them. Just not possible. (Edited your add: Just not possible in a short timespan.)

I have a nice little JWP I hope makes a good literati some day in the future, but for now, it’s just too young:

View attachment 271808

Oh, it has a thin trunk, and it’s rather tall for its trunk diameter, but it still looks young. The bark, for the most part, is still the smooth grey JWP juvenile bark. Maybe in another decade it will attain some character.

Contrast my tree above to this one:

View attachment 271809

That tree looks old, doesn’t it?

I think the closest to literati I have right now is this one:

View attachment 271810

What species is that last one? That’s a stunner.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Smoke, that's my point exactly. If you can see a detail that is obviously man-made, it somehow takes away from the illusion.

 

[just.wing.it]

You are not getting it. Did you see the tree 45 years ago when the cuts were fresh, and you could see them? While this carving is good, it is easy to see it is manmade. Especially if you have Kimura's book and see the carving freshly done where carving has been done against the grain. Many of the tips look like a feather because the wood would not weather in that way. This tree is upside down and the deadwood apex is the roots.


View attachment 271804

This trunk is just hideous. This is not improved my man. Opinions all....

View attachment 271805

I agree about the second tree, compared to the first, but the first....upside down?...ok.....but manmade???

 

[just.wing.it]

Smoke, that's my point exactly. If you can see a detail that is obviously man-made, it somehow takes away from the illusion.

That's almost like saying the tree should just be in the ground somewhere.
Man Made is the Trade!
We all are making these things.
The man-made-ness is the point.
The illusion is the art.

 

[penumbra]

I've noticed that "OK boomer" has quickly become the insult du jour on the internet. My response has been to immediately block anyone who uses it.

As for bunjin...love the style but am not going to try to define it. I will say though, I Iook at the trees @Adair M posted and the first two look more like informal uprights, the third is more bunjin like in my opinion. But I don't think it really matters, I don't think you have to specify what style a tree is to enjoy or even show it. Too much worrying about labels.

Thank you for enlightening me about the boomer thing. I must say that it did have me wondering what the poster was trying to say and I was hoping it was not an insult. I will block him right away.
I agree completely with your assessment of Adair's bonsai and about your opinion on labels. Being a traditional archer I get this all the time from people who think I am not serious because I do not use sights are other aiming methods other than instinctive. It doesn't matter that I started archery 57 years ago.

 

[Joe Dupre']

My opinion is that the design and execusion should not include flagrant and obvious un-natural aspects. I really dislike the "helmet" style and the overly "swoopy" branches of some bonsai masters as well as the stark white expanses of deadwood. Not saying it is or isn't right, just not my preference. It's just my opinion and I will defend anyone else's differing opinion.

 

[Adair M]

What species is that last one? That’s a stunner.

It’s a JWP, grafted on a lodgepole trunk.

 

[Adair M]

I've noticed that "OK boomer" has quickly become the insult du jour on the internet. My response has been to immediately block anyone who uses it.

As for bunjin...love the style but am not going to try to define it. I will say though, I Iook at the trees @Adair M posted and the first two look more like informal uprights, the third is more bunjin like in my opinion. But I don't think it really matters, I don't think you have to specify what style a tree is to enjoy or even show it. Too much worrying about labels.

@leatherback , this one is beautiful. Any idea where you got that image, whose tree it is?

View attachment 271811

I would call my young JWP a slant rather than an informal upright. The apex is off center. Same with the older JWP. Although, with its age and character, and how the branches drop from the apex, it has more of a literati feel to it. At least it does for me.

My third tree, the “Z Tree”, definitely has a literati feel. My problem with that tree is that since it’s been in my care, it has become really lush and healthy! Lol!!! Usually, the literati trees look a bit starved and as if they’re about to pass. Not this one! Alas...

 

[Adair M]

Here’s a more recent photo of Z:



The dad gum thing looks lush and healthy!

 

[Smoke]

My opinion is that the design and execusion should not include flagrant and obvious un-natural aspects. I really dislike the "helmet" style and the overly "swoopy" branches of some bonsai masters as well as the stark white expanses of deadwood. Not saying it is or isn't right, just not my preference. It's just my opinion and I will defend anyone else's differing opinion.

There you go. Well said

 

[BunjaeKorea]

I think one thing all literati trees must be is to be old. Age is one of those things that implies experience and wisdom - the characteristics of the “literati”.

I see many attempts where people take young whips with tall thin trunks and claim they’re going to make literati out of them. Just not possible. (Edited your add: Just not possible in a short timespan.)

I have a nice little JWP I hope makes a good literati some day in the future, but for now, it’s just too young:

View attachment 271808

Oh, it has a thin trunk, and it’s rather tall for its trunk diameter, but it still looks young. The bark, for the most part, is still the smooth grey JWP juvenile bark. Maybe in another decade it will attain some character.

Contrast my tree above to this one:

View attachment 271809

That tree looks old, doesn’t it?

I think the closest to literati I have right now is this one:

View attachment 271810

Nice trees! Your style is close to that of Korean Bunjin. I find the Korean trees look much less stylized than the Japanese trees. Then again, Korean Bonsai is somewhere between penjing and bonsai so I personally find Japanese trees to be technically amazing but aesthetically less natural looking......which is not popular in Korea.

 

[leatherback]

Great large trees with sparse foliage, but not literati.

So.. you are saying.. These are not literati because too much foliage?

this one is beautiful. Any idea where you got that image, whose tree it is?

Unfortunately.. I just pulled it of a google search which lead, I think, to one of those image collection sites with thousands of pictures of bonsai, and no attributions. Maybe someone knows the logo and/or can read the writing ?

 

[sorce]

not literati

Just my opinion.

Sorce