New Members

[AaronThomas]

I know @Smoke left because of his dissatisfaction with the way things were going

Smoke left? Saw a post of his on Monday... WTF!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Smoke left? Saw a post of his on Monday... WTF!

He’s not gone- lol
He just liked my post.

 

[AaronThomas]

He’s not gone

I know...

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If I look at the forum in the pines or juniper sections, I find it easy to navigate.
From the 'whats new' page it's harder ro distinguish quality threads.
I remember all of your names, so I can base my clicking behavior on my mental representation of a user. I know the trees and the users that own them, mostly. I give newer users the benefit of the doubt, because I like helping out.

I think the problem is as old as the internet, and since I'm a forum veteran - not this forum-, the memory system is something I've been applying for a decade now and it seems to work well.

Btw
Don't expect quality trees from that Wires_Guy_wires dude, he's a noob but sometimes he tries to write funny stuff.

 

[just.wing.it]

He’s not gone- lol
He just liked my post.

That was a mirage.

 

[bonhe]

Btw
Don't expect quality trees from that Wires_Guy_wires dude, he's a noob but sometimes he tries to write funny stuff.

You are so modest. I actually love to look at your post, because I learned quite a bit from yours .
Thụ Thoại

 

[Hartinez]

I wholeheartedly agree, Judy, that we can learn from anyone. I certainly don't think I know everything (the second I think I might I'm quickly reminded that I don't know s@#&). I also find it enjoyable to help newcomers. Just yesterday I wrote a multiple paragraph post in the intention of helping a beginner. It's when I try to teach someone something that I am forced to understand it better myself.
That being said, some days I'm more inclined to help a noob. Other days I'd just rather see nice trees. I don't think I'd ever stop helping beginners altogether, though, even if they were in a different section.
There probably isn't going to be a beneficial way to do what I'm proposing. I can already see that this is a contentious issue. In an increasingly divided nation and world we probably don't need our bonsai forum to be divisive.

I echo this for sure. Some days I’m all about it. Giving any, if i actually have any, advice to new members. I do like to help when I feel I can, though I’ve got oh so much to learn still. But some days I just wanna see cool progressions and great pics.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately actually. When I first click on to BNUT I immediately scan the new threads and depending on how I feel that day I’m looking for recognizable names or interesting titles. Some days I’m not. If I don’t see what I’m looking for right off the bat, I exit the site. Mind you, I check the site multiple times a day. I know that if I click the “see more” button I can have a much larger thread pool to choose from, giving me the opportunity to see a thread I may have missed with great content. But I don’t always click that button. Out of internet laziness I suppose. I don’t think I’m the only one who does(or doesn’t) always do this. So I was thinking an “infinite” scrolling thread pool ON THE HOME PAGE would give a greater opportunity for more people to see more threads they wanna see. Sometimes that extra button click can be so taxing!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@misfit11
We already have a section called "New to Bonsai" - How much more segregation do you want? If you want CONTROL of who posts where, go to FaceBook and set your limits on who can post on your threads. What makes this forum unique is the back and forth.

Actually, we have too many "Sub-Forums" already. Any category down on the screen below the "Tree Forums" seldom gets looked at.

If you only want to look at pretty trees by advanced practitioners, subscribe to the blogs and Vlogs of around the internet. Between the Blogs of Valavanis, Bjornholm, Neil, and others of that caliber, you can see some pretty advanced trees every day.

I come here because I like to learn, and I like to lend a hand.

The lack of control is what makes this site more interestings.

 

[misfit11]

@misfit11
If you only want to look at pretty trees by advanced practitioners, subscribe to the blogs and Vlogs of around the internet. Between the Blogs of Valavanis, Bjornholm, Neil, and others of that caliber, you can see some pretty advanced trees every day.

Leo, thank you for the suggestion on the blogs/Vlogs. I enjoy Bjorn's YouTube channel immensely. I also frequent Jonas' and Eric Schrader's blogs. They are fantastic.

As far as the only wanting "to look at pretty trees" part, let me clarify. First of all, I never said that. What I said was:

Although I appreciate the newcomers, I often just want to see nice trees...

There is a big difference between only and often. Furthermore, I tried to preface this effort to see if there were others who felt as I do with paragraphs of stuff about how I appreciate beginners on this forum. And that's exactly what I intended from this thread. An open discussion about an idea and a request for ideas from the community to possibly make the forum better. I never once said that we need to do this exactly as I say. What I said was, "Could we possibly consider something like this here on BNut? What do people think?"

I can't help but think your response was a little, "love it or leave it". I should have known better than to have posted this thread. Like I said to Judy,

There probably isn't going to be a beneficial way to do what I'm proposing. I can already see that this is a contentious issue. In an increasingly divided nation and world we probably don't need our bonsai forum to be divisive.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

You are so modest. I actually love to look at your post, because I learned quite a bit from yours .
Thụ Thoại

That's very nice of you to say. Thanks Mr. Pommegranate from the Inland empire, owner of some pines with very white bark (that's how you're stored in my memory palace). But in all honesty, I don't have very developed trees. It's the truth! But I'm still having fun around here.

 

[maroun.c]

Agree with it being boring to advanced people to see newbie questions or trees. Easy for me to say as I'm still a newbie although I've been learning for few years and have received great help.
As mentioned new members threads get little attention typically and they are what keeps forums moving usually.
This is where moderators come into play. I'm advanced in reefkeeping and moderate one of the forums where we have around 30 moderators who keep the forum in check and every subforum is moderated by 2_3 mods based on area of expertise as well as a "squad" team who are a bit less advanced but still knowledgeable enough. This ensures no thread in any subforum doesn't go unanswered or addressed. Moderators move threads also to respective subforums when needed.

 

[bonhe]

That's very nice of you to say. Thanks Mr. Pommegranate from the Inland empire, owner of some pines with very white bark (that's how you're stored in my memory palace). But in all honesty, I don't have very developed trees. It's the truth! But I'm still having fun around here.

Thanks for your highly thinking of me! I don’t judge the people basing on their outside looks or in the bonsai- their trees, but I care about how they interact with other people. Your knowledge of horticulture, energy and enthusiasm in helping the people here is what I admire to.
Thụ Thoại

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@misfit11
Sorry, I came off a little harsh. I do understand you were being moderate, and were trying not to offend anyone in the way you asked the question. I just zoomed in with a "red meat" response.

 

[cedarcanvas]

I must also add that, as someone new to both this site and bonsai, I’m stoked to see how many people came to the ‘defence’ of noobs here. The general warmth I witness here has been the strongest part of this forum for me and why I’ve chosen to participate here over a few other places that seemed waaaay saltier.

I try the search thing first (with varying success) and even in my short time here, have learned a little of the who’s who at BNut. I’ve also browsed and followed tons of threads on topics and species I’m researching, as well as people and trees I find inspirational, to refer back to.

That being said, I’m also curious about this:

For the noobs (like me) is there better etiquette we could follow?

How can we do better?

 

[markyscott]

Here is the arc of my bonsai education

1. Absolute beginner
2. Beginner
3. Beginner under the delusion of being intermediate
4. Beginner under the delusion of being advanced (I joined bonsai nut about at this stage)
5. Restart - absolute beginner again for the second time
6. Beginner but with a better understanding of how far there is to go
7. Intermediate with an understanding that I will likely never be advanced, but having fun with what I do

On this forum, there are a precious few individuals I consider to be advanced and most of them post very infrequently (mostly because of the endless debates with people in Stage 4). Nearly everyone is somewhere on the spectrum above. Some, regardless of whether they are at stage 1 or stage 7, have a particular expertise to teach that we can all learn from if we listen, whether it’s about fertilizer, pottery, woodworking or wood preservation. Because of that, I would not segregate by experience - we are all students of bonsai and we’re all either learning or we haven’t yet realized how much more there is to know. I learn from seeing other people’s work and there have been very few progressions that I feel I haven’t benefited from in some way. If we were to segregate the postings, I would like to see the actual work people are doing on trees separated from the endless squabbles and useless debates about beginner topics or those peripheral to learning about what it takes make something that looks like this:



And why the number of trees of this caliper in North America are so very few.

Scott

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@markyscott - I agree, and I am probably only in category 6, probably not quite 7.

 

[MrWunderful]

How can we do better?

-Do the due diligence of searching before asking a question. (Not you specifically, noobs in general)
95% of New to hobby questions have probably been answered on a site as resourceful as this one.

-respect the answers given, but take advice with a grain of salt

 

[misfit11]

Here is the arc of my bonsai education

1. Absolute beginner
2. Beginner
3. Beginner under the delusion of being intermediate
4. Beginner under the delusion of being advanced (I joined bonsai nut about at this stage)
5. Restart - absolute beginner again for the second time
6. Beginner but with a better understanding of how far there is to go
7. Intermediate with an understanding that I will likely never be advanced, but having fun with what I do

On this forum, there are a precious few individuals I consider to be advanced and most of them post very infrequently (mostly because of the endless debates with people in Stage 4). Nearly everyone is somewhere on the spectrum above. Some, regardless of whether they are at stage 1 or stage 7, have a particular expertise to teach that we can all learn from if we listen, whether it’s about fertilizer, pottery, woodworking or wood preservation. Because of that, I would not segregate by experience - we are all students of bonsai and we’re all either learning or we haven’t yet realized how much more there is to know. I learn from seeing other people’s work and there have been very few progressions that I feel I haven’t benefited from in some way. If we were to segregate the postings, I would like to see the actual work people are doing on trees separated from the endless squabbles and useless debates about beginner topics or those peripheral to learning about what it takes make something that looks like this:

View attachment 303687

And why the number of trees of this caliper in North America are so very few.

Scott

Well said, Scott.

 

[BajaKen]

What I'm proposing here wouldn't be based on how long you've been a member of the forum. It shouldn't be based upon your number of posts either as there are those with 10k+ posts but poor quality trees. It would be based on your level of mastery in the hobby and the quality of your trees. Again, this is highly subjective as what one considers advanced, another would call beginner.

I'm one of the beginners and my question is "if the experienced folks were segregated from the beginners, who is going to advise us?" I'm a beginner, but I think I've watched 50 +/- YouTube lessons on a variety of subjects. I'll see a question here and the first thing I do is go to YouTube or simply do a Google search. Perhaps as part of the welcome, beginners could be advised about what not to do that frustrates the experienced. In any event, thank all of you who come here and enjoy answering and encouraging.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@BajaKen
A beginners guide to how to access information, where the site search function is located, where the resource articles are located is good, and more or less already exists, but probably could be put in a "sticky" post at the top of the "New to Bonsai" sub-forum. @Bonsai Nut - possible idea? a sticky pointing out resources at the top of the New sub-forum?

As far as a guide to what questions are "acceptable" and what questions tend to irritate old timers. That is unacceptable. Any adult that can not be tolerant of normal behavior of children is viewed as "a grinch", a less than normal, socially poorly developed human. A misanthrope. Any seasoned bonsai practitioner who can not tolerate normal questions from beginners, doesn't need to be here. They should go to Facebook and set their settings to prohibit postings by others on their own page. Us "old timers" should be certain we do not become misanthrops. The life blood of the hobby is steady recruitment of new practitioners, as we "ain't getting any younger". We should welcome questions. If we are not interested in answering a question, simply ignoring the question should be enough.

I am not saying all experienced members have to answer every question. No. I am just asking that if there is a question that irritates you, just don't answer it. Someone else will take it on. If you don't have a helpful comment, it is better to not answer than to behave rudely. Frankly this does not appear to be a big problem. Only an occasional issue. Vast majority of seasoned veterans here are behaving in very helpful ways.

Now of course it is perfectly okay for there to be some humor, some teasing, and some pranking. But we all should be conscious of tone and that those that are new might not get the humor. So if anyone wants to give me crap about this post or something else, that is fine, I can deal.