Dawn Redwood drying and black pine question

[CrisisM0de]

Hello once more!

I am located in West Michigan where it has been quite hot!

I received this dawn redwood for my birthday last week. I read that I cannot prune green shoots or trim at all really until end of winter? Is this true? It's very wild and some needles have gone yellow or dried out completely. It gets sun until around noon when I move it to the porch. The porch doesn't get much sun until after 6. It seems to be planted in sand and I check that it is moist every day. I have been watering with bonsai-pro fertilizer (1/4 tsp per gallon) whenever the soil seems to be getting dry. Is it normal for needles to do this? Should I prune away most of the overgrowth? Watering has been done every other day or so, the soil it is in seems to retain moisture fairly well.



On another note, this black pine arrived today and I saw the tops have some sort of white mold going on. I immediately unpacked it, watered it, and now have it placed in the sun.



Thank you everyone!

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

For the dawn Redwood it looks like water requirements are a lot like the bald cypress I just picked where it can deal with "waterlogged" soil pretty well. I know it's been 100f degrees around my area I've got it literally sitting in a tub of water right now because these guys are thirsty when it's hot. I don't have any dawn Redwood myself so I'm not sure if it's quite as good with waterlogged soil. I would be watering more often than you think. I've also been misting a couple times a day to help it moist. Plus the way I understand it being submerged helps get buttressed roots.

 

[StarGazer]

For this specific case, you can trim the dead shoots in your dawn redwood now, and you could also do some branch selection. It seems there are lots of weak or competing branches next or top of each other that could be removed. You still have the fall to allow the tree to gain strength and prepare for dormancy.
If you cut a thick branch maybe use cut paste to prevent water loss in the hot summer.

You could also wait until the leafs have dropped in the fall to do branch selection then, looking at a tree without leafs can reveal interesting structures hidden during the growing season.

Dawn redwoods like a lot of water so water often, but make sure the soil drains well.

About pine:
It's hard to see the mold you mention in the JBP, are you referring to the white waxy substance by at the bottom of each pair of needles? If so, that is not mold is part of the shaft of the needle pair.

 

[CrisisM0de]

Thank you for your help! @StarGazer I have been removing anything that is dried up/dead. I definitely want to wait to cut any old wood. There are a lot of darker green branches which I assume are from this year? Those I feel like I should leave alone as well for now... And then shoots are what the needles grow out of, correct? These shoots are the areas I would want to thin out a bit for the trees benefit, is this correct? I can just prune the ends off? Can I pluck lone buds that sprouted from old wood? I am sorry I am learning and trying to understand branch, new growth, shoots, buds, etc.

@ProfessorFarnsworth thank you! I will keep this in mind, it has definitely been hot here lately. I was hesitant to go over board because it seems to be in sand and I wasn't sure how well it was draining. Don't want to take it out of the sand until next year if I don't have to. It is from Bonsai Boy and I assumed they knew what soil it should be in!

 

[SilverShoe99]

I've got a couple dawn redwoods that struggled quite a bit last year. Both looked similar to (or worse than) yours. I figured that the issue is that these are moisture and humidity loving trees, and my climate is hot and dry. To try to help them out, I put one of the trees (the one that was suffering more) into a shallow dish of water as @ProfessorFarnsworth suggested in his comment above, and while the tree didn't get markedly better, it did stop deteriorating and losing foliage.

This year both trees are doing much better. I repotted them this spring into a much more moisture retentive substrate, and changed their location from one that got full sun from noon on to a location that gets full sun only for a couple hours each morning. From then on they're in open shade all afternoon (i.e. I moved them from the sunny to shady side of the yard).

I'm not sure where you're located or what your climate is like, but this is what worked for me....giving the tree maximum moisture for the rest of the season, a repot into a more locally-appropriate soil mix in the spring, and getting them out of full afternoon sun.


Photo this morning haven't got any from last year showing the dessicated foliage.

 

[CrisisM0de]

I've got a couple dawn redwoods that struggled quite a bit last year. Both looked similar to (or worse than) yours. I figured that the issue is that these are moisture and humidity loving trees, and my climate is hot and dry. To try to help them out, I put one of the trees (the one that was suffering more) into a shallow dish of water as @ProfessorFarnsworth suggested in his comment above, and while the tree didn't get markedly better, it did stop deteriorating and losing foliage.

This year both trees are doing much better. I repotted them this spring into a much more moisture retentive substrate, and changed their location from one that got full sun from noon on to a location that gets full sun only for a couple hours each morning. From then on they're in open shade all afternoon (i.e. I moved them from the sunny to shady side of the yard).

I'm not sure where you're located or what your climate is like, but this is what worked for me....giving the tree maximum moisture for the rest of the season, a repot into a more locally-appropriate soil mix in the spring, and getting them out of full afternoon sun.

View attachment 322502
Photo this morning haven't got any from last year showing the dessicated foliage.

Thank you! It is in a humidity tray, perhaps I will find a deeper dish to keep it in. Glad to hear yours are doing better! I made a sort of bench that will provide afternoon shade so I am hoping that will help along with not having to move it around twice a day, is it stressful to a tree to be moved regularly? I see all of your branches and needles are rightside up, many of mine are upside down and twisting all around... I think maybe its from shipping, but that was almost 2 weeks ago now.

 

[TimberLakers]

Like a few folks above, I placed one of my Dawn Redwoods into a ~2" deep saucer for the hottest part of the summer, similar to Bald Cypress treatment. This one in particular had some drying foliage that has since corrected itself.

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

@CrisisM0de - I'm here in Grand Rapids, so likely close to you.

I have 15+ dawn redwoods varying in sizes, plus a few in my yard planted as landscape trees.

When we get these very humid/hot days, I do see my dawns occasionally drop young soft foliage or droop. Nearly impossible to over-water when you have more of an inorganic bonsai soil, as it appears you have in the photo.

I've found that getting 5-6 hours of morning sun is plenty during the summer months for my dawns, and they look the healthiest when on the east-facing side of my house - losing direct sun around the warmest part of the day, around 1:00pm, when the sun goes over the house.

This really only applies for the hottest parts of the summer, but in my experience, leaving them out in direct all-day sun when more than 90 degrees means I need to water twice a day.

Regarding pruning: spring is best, when you are just starting to see the buds swell/a bit of green in them. This creates much back-budding. Second-best time to prune is in July, after the first flush has hardened off - you will get some back-budding from this if the roots are nice and strong. If you feel the foliage with your fingers, you can tell which is still soft and new versus hardened and becoming more wax like.

If you just received the tree this year, I would let it run, make sure it gets enough water and NOT direct sun all day, and then prune during winter or early spring - no reason to rush the pruning process. It's getting a little late to prune dawn though you could still see a few back buds from pruning.

My two cents from someone who adores these trees - my favorite in the landscape and they do so well in our climate/are very winter hardy. My landscape trees are producing cones this year which is also exciting!

 

[PA_Penjing]

We can only make speculations about dawn redwood because there are so few in the wild but I have seen mature trees with half the roots submerged. Also, Aljos Farjon states in his encylcapedia of conifers that DR are almost definitely a riparian tree. I have been soaking mine this year and it hasn't seen any issues. Only when the temp goes above 90 do I submerge it. Just my preference. I have one as a landscape tree that I grew from seed and if the conditions are right it will grow continuously from the last frost to the first frost. I'm trying to accomplish this with a potted tree and this is my best season so far

 

[CrisisM0de]

@Brad in GR Thank you! I built a bench with a roof that is now providing shade around 12:00. Tree looks worse today though... is there a certain amount of time I can expect for it to take before it adjusts and stops going yellow? I'm worried it's just dying. I'll give it even more water and take your advice about waiting to prune. Vrey cool you planted some, I didn't think they'd make it through winter here!

 

[CrisisM0de]

@PA_Penjing I am going to try way more water!

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

@Brad in GR Thank you! I built a bench with a roof that is now providing shade around 12:00. Tree looks worse today though... is there a certain amount of time I can expect for it to take before it adjusts and stops going yellow? I'm worried it's just dying. I'll give it even more water and take your advice about waiting to prune. Vrey cool you planted some, I didn't think they'd make it through winter here!

If you’re in West Michigan as noted, I can assure you they will not have any issues with winter. I have one that has been in the ground for 10+ years, my father has 30-year dawns in his yard as well. They are hardy to zone 4! I leave the bonsai dawns outside with no protection even in their bonsai containers and all have survived winters, even cuttings taken during the summer.
Give it a few weeks to recover. Don’t overthink it, if you just received the tree I’d be keeping it in shade most of the day as well.

 

[LittleDingus]

View attachment 322180

This specific picture where a whole branch is dried up looks like what happens to mine occasionally when me or the wind breaks a branch. Sometimes I'll break delicate new growth leaning over one tree to water another. Sometimes it's windy enough that some of the delicate foliage breaks on it's own. The broken bit looks exactly like that. I water my trees a LOT and some of my dawns sit in an inch or three of water during growing season.

Well "growing season" is a loose term. My dawn and coastal redwoods pretty much stop growing when temps get above 80-85F. Most of July and August they just sit there for me. By late August/early September I'll usually get a second flush of growth until temps drop too far. Usually late October for me.

Once temps drop back into the lower 70s they probably shouldn't sit in water any more. As the temps cool and growth slows excess water can more easily lead to mold/rot issues. At least that's my routine. Every dawn redwood I've ever killed has been killed by poor winter care

Here's a recent (7/29/2020) family photo of one of my redwood projects. This is 3rd growing season for all 3. Dawn is in the middle and from seed. The other two (seqoia on left coastal on right) were purchased as plugs a few months after the dawn sprouted. I've yet to try coastal and sequioa from seed. Not sure why.