A life question for the older nuts

[cheap_walmart_art]

Due to an unexpected layoff (my first time ever losing a job) at age 40 - I have been presented with some choices that I thought I'd try to tap the older crowd for some good, old fashioned life advice. My entire career has been floating from one desk to another in different fields and aspects from counseling troubled youth, to hoofing it on a factory line, to acting as team daddy for 15 Peterbilt salesmen at four different dealerships. These jobs have ranged from absolutely soul crushing to "meh." I've never found one that stoked any passion in me and that I went to day in and day out for any reason other than getting that paycheck and putting food on the table.

I'm due in for an interview today to an inside sales job that I know I will be offered. It has the potential for decent money, but it will be another job behind a desk talking on the phone to people who may or may not buy a product. Thing is, I'm really good at these types of jobs, I just get burned out after a year or two of 80-100 calls a day and twice as many emails.

My wife, however, has been encouraging me to try something different. Shes a very successful music teacher in the area with an established private school. She runs around 30-34 students at any given time on a variety of instruments. I'm a fairly proficient bass player and we recently opened up her school to beginner-intermediate bass students. I've already got two students lined up in less than three weeks of advertising. She thinks I should try to cultivate this and join her music school as a bass teacher for bass guitar and double bass. Logic dictates I would probably need to learn guitar well enough to teach beginners as well to open things up. This would be a bit more difficult - the bills are still getting paid with a little extra to put into savings each month, but it would be awhile before we could afford the gravy (eating out, hobby spending, etc.) The plus side to this path would be running on my own schedule, not working for the man anymore. Its freedom that I haven't really ever contemplated in my work life.

Besides the freedom that would come with teaching, I would be at home, with all of my bonsai, and just being around during the day I could take Bonsai to a higher level. I could really try to cultivate some good trees without waiting until a weekend to do all of my work - or doing emergency repotting at night by headlamp. I don't pretend that I could make the hobby into a business - but I could start field growing and working toward moving some prebonsai on the side on the auction sites. Maybe get the hobby rolling enough to pay for itself.

So the reason I wrote all of this on a bonsai site is that I know a lot of you are older than me, with a variety of life experiences. Looking back on it, what advice would you give someone in my point in life? Go back to work, do the office thing, get that guaranteed income and pay the bills as I have the last 23 years or take a chance that I could do something I really enjoy with the woman I love and sacrifice some cash for some inner peace and autonomy? Also, its just me and the wife - no kids or dependents in the picture.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I know a lot of older folks with good skills that do their 'original' job as freelancer on the side, next to their hobby business. I'm in no age/stage to give advice to older people, but it's an option that you can always keep in mind if you're good at something but you don't like the dedication of working for the man.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

know a lot of older folks with good skills that do their 'original' job as freelancer on the side, next to their hobby business.

Yeah, thats what this ISA job would basically be. I'd be 1099 (Contractor) and get paid hourly but also would receive cuts of any commission on final sales.

 

[rockm]

Think very carefully about the move to self-employment. -- stuff like insurance and a regular paycheck are big advantages with "regular" jobs. Old people, and I'm pushing 60, can't take insurance costs lightly. As you get old stuff breaks, wears out...etc. It's not for the faint of heart. ;-)

Making a hobby into a business has killed a lot of hobbies and sunk a lot of businesses. Pressing a hobby to pay the rent is a tall, frustrating order. Some people can do it, some can't...bonsai business has a long history of making people humble.

Not saying don't do it, but think realistically.

 

[Carol 83]

I found myself in a somewhat similar situation when I was 45. I was the Accounts Payable manager for a fairly large agricultural company, had been there 20 years. The company was bought out, our office was closed and the jobs moved to CA. I received a lot of offers from headhunters for similar jobs/pay, but they involved working in the city and a rather long commute. I knew that would make me miserable. I ended up taking a job (and a substantial pay cut) to work for a smaller farm co-op in the town I live in. I struggled with the financial aspect, but I work blocks from my house. I use virtually no gas, can go home for lunch, and have a very casual dress code, so save money on all of those things. Plus, I am only responsible for my own job, and don't have the stress of managing a bunch of women that acted like kindergartners. So, it all balanced out in my eyes. However, I do have the security of a husband that carries our health insurance and has a good job, so it wasn't a terribly risky decision. Just a question of how much the extra money I would make taking a job that I would dread going to every day was worth. Best of luck with your decision. '

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Think very carefully about the move to self-employment. -- stuff like insurance and a regular paycheck are big advantages with "regular" jobs. Old people, and I'm pushing 60, can't take insurance costs lightly. As you get old stuff breaks, wears out...etc. It's not for the faint of heart. ;-)

Making a hobby into a business has killed a lot of hobbies and sunk a lot of businesses. Pressing a hobby to pay the rent is a tall, frustrating order. Some people can do it, some can't...bonsai business has a long history of making people humble.

Not saying don't do it, but think realistically.

Thanks for the reply. To be clear the bonsai part would be just gravy unless something really took off. The main income would be teaching music, which my wife has been very successful at for well over a decade. I'd basically be coming into her already established business.

Health insurance is something we are trying to figure out. At this point I would have to provide for my own health insurance whether I remained jobless, started teaching, or took the contract work I mentioned earlier. At the moment we can find something through the healthcare marketplace - catastrophic but still affordable monthly and its something at least.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I found myself in a somewhat similar situation when I was 45. I was the Accounts Payable manager for a fairly large agricultural company, had been there 20 years. The company was bought out, our office was closed and the jobs moved to CA. I received a lot of offers from headhunters for similar jobs/pay, but they involved working in the city and a rather long commute. I knew that would make me miserable. I ended up taking a job (and a substantial pay cut) to work for a smaller farm co-op in the town I live in. I struggled with the financial aspect, but I work blocks from my house. I use virtually no gas, can go home for lunch, and have a very casual dress code, so save money on all of those things. Plus, I am only responsible for my own job, and don't have the stress of managing a bunch of women that acted like kindergartners. So, it all balanced out in my eyes. However, I do have the security of a husband that carries our health insurance and has a good job, so it wasn't a terribly risky decision. Just a question of how much the extra money I would make taking a job that I would dread going to every day was worth. Best of luck with your decision. '

Thanks Carol - I hear you one the spouse with a good job aspect. My wife has always made more money than me haha but I've always carried our health insurance through my job. The health insurance is the biggest factor in self employment right now, I think.

 

[TomB]

I'd be wondering whether its possible to do the office job part time for couple of years while you build the music teaching. Depends on what they are looking for I guess.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I'm around your age, so not much older but here is my 2 cents. If you will enjoy the music teaching gig and believe you can make it into a profitable avenue, go for it. You have no dependents and you indicated your wife is somewhat successful so that is comforting. The corporate jobs will always be there to suck the life back out of you if you need to fall back on it. With that said, don't ever expect to make money off bonsai. If you can break even by growing/selling, you are doing well.

Even better if you can find a way to work another job while you try to get the music thing off the ground.

Signed,
Guy in corp america who would jump at an opportunity to get out if he could.

 

[Anthony]

On our side the prime situation is house / land. Built and
paid for life is easier.
No winter or cold for energy/clothes etc cost.

You can give the idea a 6 months try.

Bonsai here is almost at zero cost, as most things are made
by hand and seeds etc.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Silentrunning]

As a person in his 70s I guess I qualify as older. If I were 40 and looking for a career I would definitely go into the IT field. I have 2 younger friends who have made this move and both are very happy and doing well. What I would stay away from is retail sales. Large box stores are heartless and don’t value their employees.

As far as being self employed- that is not for the faint of heart. I have had friends over the years that have poured their lives into their work and still come away empty handed.

 

[JudyB]

Do you have an IATSE local near you? There are good opportunities in the entertainment business, and it's always engaging work, never a desk job and always something different every day. Hours are crazy, but that's just part of the gig. It's not self employment, and there are benefits with most locals these days. Where in TN are you?

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Do you have an IATSE local near you? There are good opportunities in the entertainment business, and it's always engaging work, never a desk job and always something different every day. Hours are crazy, but that's just part of the gig. It's not self employment, and there are benefits with most locals these days. Where in TN are you?

I have thought about auditioning for pit at the local playhouses. I'd wager it would be gig pay just like teaching and performing. I'm right in the middle between Nashville and Knoxville.

 

[sorce]

You ain't gonna see more South stuck behind a goddamned telephone!

You sound miserable, like I been.

Don't take that bitch ass job.

Make people better musicians.

Don't even think you have to learn guitar.
That's probly what every other asshole has done. Be your own asshole!

I read some shit the other day that was like, "you're stupid if you go back to work".

Sorce

 

[PaulH]

Rockm nailed it. I'm a month away from 69 and have been self employed most of my life which has both pros and cons. Insurance is a big one. Be prepared for 1-2 grand a month for health insurance. You should also be prepared for both fat and lean years. Many years I've made less than minimum wage but made up for it in the good years. Retirement planning is another big factor. While I'm ok I see what my friends who retired from corporate and government jobs get and my jaw drops.
Regarding making money at a hobby be prepared to lose the joy it gives you when it becomes a job. I've owned a feed and pet supply for almost 40 years and I've seen a lot of competitors come and go because they got in the business because they loved pets but failed quickly when they faced the challenges of running a small business.
Having said that I wouldn't do any different if I had another chance. There's no better feeling than being your own boss.

 

[sorce]

1-2 grand a month for health insurance. Y

Please tell me that is for a handful of employees too.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

The pluses and minuses have already been mentioned, so I'll stick to cautions. If you intend to pursue music instruction as a way to make a living, you need to approach it as a business. You don't need to have a MBA to do this, but it would be helpful to write a semi-formal business plan. You can buy a book on this, or not. By writing it down you will force yourself to be specific about what it is you are going to do, how many hours you will do this or that to acquire additional customers expressed as Plan A, Plan B, C, D, etc. Nobody else has to ever see it, but it will help you organize yourself and make your efforts more focused. Nothing is more counterproductive than traveling down the road for some time to find yourself saying to yourself, "OH SHIT, I didn't think about that!" Having a business plan will allow you to constantly update and tweak it as some things prove better or worse than expected. There is no such thing as a business plan that is right on the money and just needs to be followed once written. Having one forces you and your wife to acknowledge realities, refine specifics as progress is made or not made, and develop alternatives ASAP when appropriate. It also allows you two to agree that the costs and achievements are worthwhile. Every small business owner will tell you that the spouse shares your success or failure whether or not they have any active part in the endeavor. If you are not both pulling the wagon willingly, it will tear your marriage apart. A written business plan continually recombobulated by both you and your wife will serve as a good way of not ever surprising each other with an, "I didn't know about that...". Like getting real quotes on insurance, beforehand...

As to making money in bonsai, the old saw, "Want to make a million dollars in bonsai? OK, first, get two million dollars." Bonsaiists are a lot cheaper than outsiders may think. Buying materials at retail and making a profit on it is hard enough, but buying at wholesale means paying for inventory which can tie up cash and may or may not actually be profitable anyway. Or, even just break-even. Do one thing at a time. Spend money and time acquiring more music customers. For extra money, working on weekends or nights at some ordinary job where others don't want to work could be helpful.

You can do it! Plan Ahead...

 

[shinmai]

I turned 65 this year. I’ve been a financial advisor [commission based] for twenty five years. I make a really good living, come and go as I please, and have clients I really like working for.
I’ve played guitar since I was twelve. Forty years ago I was touring, performing regularly, and self-produced an album. I had a bevy of paying students, and the future looked bright. I even had an endorsement deal with Ovation. I was offered the chance to sign with a label, but it meant going on the road for three years or so, and we had a brand new baby. I sat up into the wee hours trying to decide if I had the creative talent to keep composing, and whether the reward would be worth the risk.
I flinched, and went back to being a hobby guitarist while looking for a day job. For the last forty years I’ve wondered,”What if?”
Go for it. If it doesn’t fly, you can always find another day job somewhere. Teaching people to play music can change lives, and those lives can change the world.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Thanks for the good advice, everyone. I really like hearing all of these different perspectives. The health insurance issue is definitely a big one - and I don't have much faith we as a nation will get the mess it is in resolved anytime soon. Currently, I am going to look at this month as a sabbatical of sorts. I've only taken one substantial vacation in the last 8 years I have been working and some down time is needed. In the meantime, I will be brushing up on the pedagogy, keeping my eye open for opportunities, and keeping up with my trees.

 

[shinmai]

Amen to everything Forsoothe said, and one more thought. A former band mate of mine chose, late in life, to quit the corporate world and become a writer. It worked, and he’s had a successful novel published. He said that one key to success is ‘going to work’. He had a shed on his property that he turned into an office, and five days a week he would walk the hundred feet to the office, close the door, and work until noon. Quick lunch, and back at it until four.
My point is, if you’re going to choose the path, do it intentionally. Even having a separate space in the basement for a teaching studio is a start, even better if you can actually leave the house. One of the biggest challenges in working from home is all the distractions that can eat your day and keep you from being productive.
I sincerely wish you much success and satisfaction.