Aaron the Great - Celtis occidentalis North America - #1

[Aaron the Great]

And so it begins..


So who is gonna grow this for me? I like lots of points! Lots of points!

Especially after the results from last summer, I don't have a very good track record with growing bonsai trees. Well you know the old saying "When life gives you lemons, you grab that lemon and bean someone in the head with it"
To be honest I have heard of the name Hackberry but was never really familiar with it. I just thought that it was something that granny did when she smoked too many cigarettes while eating blueberries. However my bestie Mr. Wikipedia gave me some knowledge on the tree. As it turns out, it has nothing to do with granny. Mr. Wikipedia says that the common Hackberry grows into Central Oklahoma and Oklahoma City happens to be in central Oklahoma.


So I figured that if a plant can grow in Oklahoma with our wacky weather then RESPECT. (Sometimes I think that Oklahoma is the whipping boy for Mother Nature, how in the heck did the Sooners and Boomers survive living in tents with very limited sources for food, water and timber? They were a lot tougher than I for sure. RESPECT).

So here we are now, the last half of January 2025, I got my seeds ordered and with luck they will arrive in time for stratification and get them planted in time for spring.
Lots of questions to follow.

​

 

[Aaron the Great]

Progression update! (This alone should be worth at least 41.368 points!
I ordered my seeds a couple of days ago. According to my receipt they are coming from New York. So they are probably in Brazil at this point.
I have at least 90 days of them soaking up the cool in my fridge, then they go outside for the birds. What would be the best medium for me to plant the seeds in. Since I may not be able to afford the best stuff, what other options do I have?
Thanks a bunch

 

[JoB]

Vermiculite is relatively cheap and good for seeds. I am in Germany so not sure how expensive it is in US

 

[Kievnstavick]

40/60 coco coir to pumice/perlite is a decent seed mix for the cheap as well. I just starting playing with this mix myself, so I don't know if I'll like it or norlt in the future.

Vermiculite is fairly cheap in my local area and is currently still my go to for younger stock. I do 45/45/10 of Vermiculite, Pumice, and charcoal respectively. These are my small particle sizes or extra small from my sifting process.

 

[Aaron the Great]

FINALLY!
My Celtis occidentalis North American Common Hackberry seeds have arrived. I think that they would have gotten here faster if I used the Pony Express as the shipping carrier. So here is the moment that the entire world has been waiting for:
An Envelope!!!!!!



Here is what I found inside: (Note my super duper awesome image editing skills)



I took those seeds out of the 1/3 Twinkie sized Ziploc baggie, and tossed them in a swimming pool just their size.


Tomorrow I get to toss them in the chill box to let them chill until almost May. That's getting into summertime!

Are these seed safe to eat? I think that I accidently swallowed one and now everything has a purple tint to it!

I guess you can now say that I'm a competitive bonsai artist. Not a very good one but still get the name. Competitive Bonsai Brtist, that sounds big league doesn't it? Gonna have to print some business cards up. How does this card design look?


Look out people, it doesn't get more serious than a business card made up in MS Paint

I encourage you to follow along cause I have no clue on how bad I'm going to mess this up. Those poor little seeds don't understand the levels of nut job that their grower has.


P.S. Don't panic, everything is just fine, purple tine is just the light from my grow light. Man I was worried there for a minute.

 

[Aaron the Great]

When I put the seeds in the fridge for the 90 days, I've heard some say that you can use sand or paper towels. What ever medium I use in the refrigerator, does it need to be wet, dry, damp?
Can they be put in a plastic container?
Thanks

 

[Gabler]

When I put the seeds in the fridge for the 90 days, I've heard some say that you can use sand or paper towels. What ever medium I use in the refrigerator, does it need to be wet, dry, damp?
Can they be put in a plastic container?
Thanks

Slightly moist in a plastic bag.

 

[Aaron the Great]

Wrap them in a moist paper towel and bag them up. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Gabler]

Wrap them in a moist paper towel and bag them up. Thanks for the advice.

You want to wring out almost all of the water from the paper towel, and it's a good idea to wash the seeds with hydrogen peroxide to prevent mold. You could also use sphagnum moss to prevent mold. I do both. I've lost too many seeds to mold.

 

[Oddly_Aude]

Oh dang. I put mine in soil. Eeep!

 

[Aaron the Great]

How long do I wash the seeds in the hydrogen peroxide?
Do you just dip them in a squish them around a bit?

 

[Gabler]

Oh dang. I put mine in soil. Eeep!

Soil is usually fine.

 

[Gabler]

How long do I wash the seeds in the hydrogen peroxide?
Do you just dip them in a squish them around a bit?

The stuff you buy at the pharmacy that comes in a brown bottle is usually three percent (3%) hydrogen peroxide. It takes a couple of minutes to fully disinfect a surface. I wouldn't leave them soaking in H2O2 for more than a half hour or so.

 

[Aaron the Great]

Yahoo! Got an update!
After the 24 hour soak, the Hackberry seeds migrated to a small container of 3% hydrogen peroxide and played around in there for 30 minutes. I neglected to get a pic of them soaking in the hydrogen peroxide, but I did get an action shot of the container where they played for half an hour.

Just look at that intensity! Grrrrrrr!

After the hydrogen peroxide I rounded up the little seeds and gave them a good rinsing. They tried to make a run for the border so I had to saddle up my trusty seed tick and round up those wayward bad boys. Once I finally got them under control I locked them up in a prison made from a damp paper towel and a snack sized baggy.



I bet a 90 day sentence with no parole ought to tame their temperment.

 

[Aaron the Great]

I was able to get a 8 quart bag of Vermiculite. They had no pumice, and I forgot about the charcoal. I still have nearly 90 days so I still have plenty of time.
Once I have it all mixed up (On the bag for seeds it recommends a mix of 1 part Vermiculite, 1 part Pearlite, 5 parts Coconut Coir, does this seem right?) How damp do I keep the mixture once I put the seeds in it? Like a dry damp or standing water wet?

 

[Gabler]

I was able to get a 8 quart bag of Vermiculite. They had no pumice, and I forgot about the charcoal. I still have nearly 90 days so I still have plenty of time.
Once I have it all mixed up (On the bag for seeds it recommends a mix of 1 part Vermiculite, 1 part Pearlite, 5 parts Coconut Coir, does this seem right?) How damp do I keep the mixture once I put the seeds in it? Like a dry damp or standing water wet?

You want it to be just barely moist.

 

[Aaron the Great]

I know that I will open up a can of worms (possibly gummy worms but might end up with tape worms with my luck) but I generally use what I call the Nigel Saunders soil mix. I blatantly stole it off of a YouTuber though I can't recall his name or channel. Its roughly 45% sifted* turface (NAPA #8822) 45% sifted* pearlite and 10% sifted* homebrew compost. Will Vermiculite make a valuable addition to this? I wouldn't sift it since it is already small granules.

* My patented sifting operation requires the use of a $1 colander from the Dollar Tree

 

[Kievnstavick]

The guys name is his YouTube channel.

What is the particle size of your sifted components? You wouldn't want them too big as seeds will need a fairly moist growing environment to get them started and growing.

I use vermiculite as a water holding substrate in my seedling mix where the pumice acts as the drainage and structural substrate.

In your mix, I don't see a real reason to add the vermiculite as it just adds complexity to it for no real benefit.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Nigel uses saf-t-sorb (he calls it turface but it's calcined clay), perlite, and pine bark in his mixes. Aproximately 1:1:1/4 it seems.

I do not think that this mix is a good choice for someone who cant water multiple times a day.

8822DE has similar structure and water holding qualities as his "turface" but is lighter and floats. For deciduous a mix of 100% 8822 has served me well in tbe past. Adding perlite gives additional drainage but no weight. I feel the perlite will rise to the top and be washed out easily. Vermiculite is similarly light. It wont add much additional weight or structure to the mix. Id omit.

Compost is a touchy subject. I like using my homemade greenwaste compost for deciduous and grow out boxes when paired with a drainage component like pea gravel, or perlite. I also use it in shohin pots because its so water retentive. I use it as a vegetable seed starter as well following Charles Dowding's seed starting method. I dont use it for conifers or larger flat bonsai pots.

 

[Aaron the Great]

Nigel uses saf-t-sorb (he calls it turface but it's calcined clay), perlite, and pine bark in his mixes. Aproximately 1:1:1/4 it seems.

I do not think that this mix is a good choice for someone who cant water multiple times a day.

8822DE has similar structure and water holding qualities as his "turface" but is lighter and floats. For deciduous a mix of 100% 8822 has served me well in tbe past. Adding perlite gives additional drainage but no weight. I feel the perlite will rise to the top and be washed out easily. Vermiculite is similarly light. It wont add much additional weight or structure to the mix. Id omit.

Compost is a touchy subject. I like using my homemade greenwaste compost for deciduous and grow out boxes when paired with a drainage component like pea gravel, or perlite. I also use it in shohin pots because its so water retentive. I use it as a vegetable seed starter as well following Charles Dowding's seed starting method. I dont use it for conifers or larger flat bonsai pots.

I have been using the saf-t-sorb because it is what I had access to. I can't drive and it's hard for me to get someone to stop at NAPA even though one is just 3/4 of a mile from my home. My personal mode of transportation is a recumbent trike. I hobbled a homemade trailer for it so now I can go get it on my own.

I worked at a tree nursery in Pennsylvania for a few years in the mid 1990's and got hooked on using perlite. However I am out and have been having a hard time finding some at the big home improvement stores. Hopefully this spring they will restock some. In my case the perlite does rise up to the top of the pot. My trees look like they are planted in Siberia for awhile until the wind comes sweeping down the plains and carries the top layer of pearlite away. I don't see this happening in any of Nigel Saunders videos.

For the compost, my son makes it for me. He is 22 and High Functioning Autistic, he puts a lot of work into making it. I mean he measures the temp and dampness everyday and puts it in a logbook along everything he puts in it and how much he takes out. So when he puts down his game controller to make me some compost, I'm gonna use it.

Right now I'm completely out of everything but compost, so I'm at a good place to change my soil mix. I'm going to stick with the stuff from NAPA and compost. So I'm going to try to figure out what I can add to it that can fit the budget.