About Shohin...

Adair M

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
35,135
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Yesterday, I asked Daisaku Nomoto if literati (bunjin) can be considered "Shohin", if they are over 8 inches tall.

His initial reaction was he scrunched up his face!

Anyway, this led to a discussion of exactly what is "Shohin". (Daisaku, by the way, is on the board of the Nippon Shohin Association.)

The word "Shohin", derives from the Chinese character that means "many things". As in plural. So, these are trees intended to be shown in groups.

I also learned there are 7 "sizes" of Shohin. And they're not really based upon the size of the tree as much as the stand they're displayed in. Also, he was describing the traditional Japanese ways of displaying Shohin, not our Western innovative ways of displaying.

So, I will get more details and post them, I need to get going over to Boon's.

More later.
 
I await your findings. It sounds that Nomoto San has his questions as well which means to me that question may be the matter of opinion because it seem he may not have thought about it much.
 
Although the beauty is most important, more important than sizes, this interests me.

Last year when I was teaching in the Philippines, Mr. Nakajima from Japan was also there with Tom Elias and his wife Hiromi (Japanese lady.) I brought up the topic and it quickly ended, not surprising to me. However, the next morning Hiromi spoke directly to Nakajima and she gave me a piece of paper with sizes. Apparently, each show has different standards! Below is directly from Nakajima through Hiromi, so it is correct. I don't use Japanese terminology, put present it here as it is directly from Nakajima:

KOKUFU TEN
General over 45cm
Chuhin 45-25cm
Shohin (including name) 20-25cm

TAIKAN TEN
Ogata over 60cm
Chugata 60-40cm
Kogata 40-25cm
Shohin (including mame) up to 25cm
 
Interesting.

It's hard to tell in photos, and I've seen only a couple in person, but it seems most shohin displays are roughly the same size.

Wondering, cuz I'm pondering a "tiny" rack.

Sorce
 
I even like em all alone....just one little shohin, standing solo.
To me, the more mature and old looking you can make a tree appear, the better... and the ones that are also small in size are that much more magical.
I do understand the rules in exhibition though....it is interesting that different shows have different standards.
 
At the U.S. National Shohin Bonsai Exhibition the height for shohin bonsai is 8" from the base of the trunk to the terminal. NOT from the rim of the container. Often people mound up the soil which adds an inch or two.

However, proportion and beauty are more important than the 8" height. In order to provide some interest we will also have other bonsai with heights up to 12" in height.

There will also be an award for the Best Mame Bonsai. There are 8 awards in total.
 
Awesome input guys! Thank you Bill for your insight and Adair for sharing what you're learning.

I have a question for either or both of you if you don't mind. How does deadwood play in the measurement? I posted this small Limber pine in the other thread, but I'll put it here for ease of discussion. The measurement form base of trunk to apex of foliage (terminal?) is only 5", but the deadwood measures to about 9".

 
Is the deadwood part of the design of this bonsai? I think so, so it too must be considered in the height. However, the height of delicate deadwood trunks is sometimes forgiven when entering exhibitions with standards.

This bonsai does not have a delicate deadwood trunk in my opinion. It's a great bonsai, but not delicate.
 
Thanks Bill! So if I'm understanding this correctly, it would be better to show this tree possibly as part of a three point display or something as opposed to in a shohin stand?
 
Why would you make that statement?
I don't think the tree is powerful enough or large enough for a three point display. Of course this all depends on the final show container. If the container is small it could easily be part of a bonsai in a box stand.
 
Ok thanks. I think I misunderstood your assessment of the deadwood. I'm just starting to learn a bit about display, and still have very far to go. :)
 
Bill, would you see a tree like this on the top of a box stand? It's not the normal shape of pine one sees in that position, but do you think it would be 'acceptable'?
 
If it looks good, go for it. Although my taste has been influenced by the current Japanese community, I am an American. And, if I think that Limber pine would look good on the top shelf of a box stand, I'd use it. But, its use depends on the other bonsai in the box stand, styles, direction, container color and container shape.

If someone does not think that tree was acceptable would they get a fine or ticket?

ARPAG.jpg
 
Dan W. said:
Awesome input guys! Thank you Bill for your insight and Adair for sharing what you're learning.

I have a question for either or both of you if you don't mind. How does deadwood play in the measurement? I posted this small Limber pine in the other thread, but I'll put it here for ease of discussion. The measurement form base of trunk to apex of foliage (terminal?) is only 5", but the deadwood measures to about 9".

Click to expand...
Get that little guy in a nice pot, add some wire and Dang!!!! Nice little tree really like it. Love that Jin!
 
Ok. I took advantage to speak with three Certified Masters: Daisaku Nomoto, Matt Reel, and Tyler Sherrod. Matt and Tyler were apprentices to Shinji Suzuki.

They ALL stated that "Shohin" in Japan is defined as a maximum of 20 cm from the rim to the top of the live foliage. But there is some leeway allowed. A really good formal upright JBP, for example, can get away with 21 or 22 cm. Deadwood isn't measured.

Literati, isn't specifically prohibited, but generally they don't get shown in the shows. What a hobbiest might do in his home tokanoma is another matter.

The sizes are categorized by the size of the box stand. There's the 71+ cm box stand, the under 70cm box stand, under 65, under 60, etc. The smallest are are called "mini-bonsai" and they are under 4 inches. The absolute smallest are "mame" which are under 2 inches.
 
jeremy_norbury said:
I'm gonna need to get a smaller stand...
06258719 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr
Click to expand...
This thing is an inspiration for me and what I'd like to do with some of my maples I've grown from seed. Thank you for sharing this one each season!

Aaron
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RaginCajun
My shohin satsuki azalea “Mrs. Dawn”
Replies
4
Views
262
RaginCajun
RaginCajun
Tidal Bonsai
“Tocinoshin” the Shohin Trident
Replies
3
Views
190
pandacular
pandacular
J
Shohin Juniper Horizontalis
Replies
4
Views
220
Orion_metalhead
Orion_metalhead
mwar15
Shohin glazed pot auction
Replies
2
Views
229
mwar15
mwar15
mwar15
Shohin rectangle pot auction
Replies
2
Views
162
mwar15
mwar15
Back
Top Bottom