An interesting experiment, what do you think ?

[Anthony]

Reported in New Scientist - last year

Guarantee the poor an income
Don't touch the middle class
Tax the rich

Apparently this is the new idea, that heads in Europe would like to
try.

A little confusing for me, because I was raised to work for what I need.
Or do without, when I cannot afford or save up.

By the way I was raised on two meals a day -----

Eat like a king for breakfast.
Eat like a prince for lunch
Eat like a pauper for before 7.00 p.m [ soup ]

Bed by 10.00 p.m rise by 5.00 or 5,30 a,m,
Sometimes a one hour nap in the afternoon.

Somehow we forgot the soup part.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

I was thinking the other day....

How the child responsible for creating a true Utopian Society...

May have already been shot and killed.

Sad.

Very sad.

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

@sorce ,

thanks for the reply. I think with the astounding number of responses I got, I did a bad.
So it is time to retire from the Tea Room for while.
Apologies to All, I offended.
I shall think more deeply before typing.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

@sorce ,

thanks for the reply. I think with the astounding number of responses I got, I did a bad.
So it is time to retire from the Tea Room for while.
Apologies to All, I offended.
I shall think more deeply before typing.
Good Day
Anthony

It's a Good thoughtful conversation.

Not offensive.

Again...

The poor have the necessity to create.

Yet can't afford to defend patents.

We know Stone lasts millions of years...

Yet here I am...

Erecting a building earth can erase in a few years.

Sustainable?

We are lost.

Sorce

 

[my nellie]

I am not offended, Anthony.
I was giving your post some thought...
I will post my comments based on current social-economic status in my country

... ...
Guarantee the poor an income - Don't touch the middle class - Tax the rich
Apparently this is the new idea, that heads in Europe would like to try.
A little confusing for me, because I was raised to work for what I need. Or do without, when I cannot afford or save up... ...

I was raised in a similar way, too. But now I am 64 and things have completely changed.
At my childhood years anyone could find some job to do and earn a little money for living. It's not the case now!
During the last years it's the first time that we see homeless people at the streets in Greece. Never before!
On the other hand the rich class was never touched. Even now no one dares tax the rich according to their wealth.
Οn the contrary new taxes are imposed almost everyday on the weaker class. Pensions' cutback is the most certain which will always happen.
So, yes there are poor people who need to get some kind of "income" because otherwise they will starve to death!
And I see no bad if ever the heads in Europe will start imposing some tax on the wealthy class.
BUT most certainly it is not going to be that way unfortunately!

 

[Bolero]

Alexandra, it will eventually come down to a Class Struggle between the Haves and the Have Nots,.,...
Government Bureaucrats surround themselves in their Bureauracy's and don't address the Have Nots & their Economic struggles...it just goes on and on and on...
In America the Middle Class has been Eliminated & most have become Have Nots...
America Functions "In Spite of itself" but it will come to an End Eventually.
It may take another 100 years but it is inevitable....

 

[my nellie]

You are correct, Bolero.

The important thing is : for all to understand that the "Class Struggle between the Haves and the Have Nots" is artificially constructed and imposed based on a plan. It's not a natural outcome!

I believe that it's more complicated than simply saying : The Bureaucrats or The Technocrats or anyone else do not address these problems... It goes deeper!

 

[Bolero]

You are correct, Bolero.

The important thing is : for all to understand that the "Class Struggle between the Haves and the Have Nots" is artificially constructed and imposed based on a plan. It's not a natural outcome!

I believe that it's more complicated than simply saying : The Bureaucrats or The Technocrats or anyone else do not address these problems... It goes deeper!

I disagree somewhat...I think it is a natural economic outcome and is social behavior of the Haves, Not some Master Plan to keep the Have Nots in their Place.... at least in the Westernized countries....
I believe the majority of the Middle Eastern countries ie Saudi Arabia do practice Social Management, unfortunately...
This is a subject, Have, Have Nots, that could run for Volumes as a discussion and maybe coincidently goes back to Karl Marx, or Fredrick Engles Eh.....

 

[sorce]

What is The "have" I wonder.

That's Why I brought up afterlife in that UK post.

I have my "have".

Do People think the human head can survive frozen alone?
It's cheaper to only cryogenicly freeze your head alone.

So...the have haves have their "afterlife"...
Morons!

I mean....what the fuck does money really Buy?

An island? Full loner status? Boring!

Once you have Billions...your family, for generations....won't have to do anything...
Ok...
But then they will become stupid for lack of need. So that line will die off.

I mean...what are you going for?

What does a big number ,now solely made up of a much larger bunch of 1s and 0s, what does It Get you?

Now on the other hand....

You spend that money feeding the Poor...
And maybe that one kid who will eventually save the World will live....
And then the billions you have saved for your eighth generation will actually have a planet To live on.

I don't believe in THE GOD.

But I believe in a reckoning.

Do you know the odds of the moon being exactly where it Is in our orbit is near impossible.

The moon is not natural.

It was pulled into this orbit.

The Human soul is powerful enough to not need cryogenics...
We don't need to download our brains into computers to Live forever...or again.

Put that nonsense together.

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

Alexandra, Bolero, Sorce,

thanks for replies
Was going to drop this topic, but ...........................

Alexandra,

here is our problem, can't afford to keep a wife, even if they share, can't afford one child, why have 3 to 5 ?
One lady last year admitted to having 15, after one was killed.
No house, no land, but wants a nice car.

I am not sure I would support this type of system.

Note, Prime Minister is just as bad - 2 outside and 3 with wife ?
And still in politcs ?
Not ashamed ?

As long as you gained your money honestly, I have no problems.
I have no problems paying taxes, if they are for Health, Maintaining roads etc,. and not Stadiums or other
silly situations.
I am also not responsible if the Government is not mature enough to know they need to export to get
Foreign exchange, and base our entire economy on oil and oil refining.

Do you know farmers do not go to school to learn how to farm.
Nope, they just pick it up and then it is fertiliser, with the expected weak plants and pesticides to follow.
Of course I won't purchase.
I will grow my own.

So as I get more independent, of energy, water and probably build a vehicle to neutralize gravity to get around
in, no need for roads, and then what will I pay taxes for ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bolero]

Sorce said: I mean....what the fuck does money really Buy?

Bolero says: It can buy you a lot of Security....

 

[LanceMac10]

Money can give you almost everything.....'cept the stones and the brains to do what's right with it!!

Have a great weekend, hug it out!!!!

 

[my nellie]

I will start from your bottom line

This is a subject, Have, Have Nots, that could run for Volumes as a discussion and maybe coincidently goes back to Karl Marx, or Fredrick Engles Eh.....

Yes, indeed! This is not the place for such kind of discussion.
Much more than that I am not that knowledgeable to get involved in such a discussion.
I just would like to make known my standpoint and equally read others' point of view.

 

[my nellie]

... ...I think it is a natural economic outcome... ...and is social behavior of the Haves, Not some Master Plan to keep the Have Nots in their Place.... at least in the Westernized countries...

OK, let us suppose that it is like this.
This outcome is due to some specific policy that has been developed and followed, is it not?
Who are the "Wise Heads" who developed that strategy which was implemented?
And their goal is so very obvious, is it not? Of course it is!

You Bolero have showed it to us with your above quote :

... ...In America the Middle Class has been Eliminated & most have become Have Nots...

There are only two classes now (and not only in America) the "Poor/Very Poor" and the "Wealthy/Billionaires"
Now the "Wise Heads" use the "Poor/Very Poor" as a terrifying bugbear for the "Wealthy/Billionaires" in order for the latter to conform with the above mentioned policies of those "Wise Heads". In fear of not getting degenerated like the "Poor/Very Poor"
Fear is a great tool for controlling!

 

[Saddler]

@Anthony I used to think the same way you do. I was raised similarly. The idea that you can just work your way out of poverty is simply wrong. Your chances of making more money grow exponentially with more money. Have you ever heard the saying "It takes money to make money"? What if you don't have any to start with? You still have to pay for a roof over your head and put food in your belly, never mind saving enough to get an education because let be honest, the only real way to get ahead today is an education. Often you need a car to get to work. Do you really think anyone but the most perfect of people can go years, if not decades and never splurge on themselves to pull themselves up far enough to have enough money to be able to let their money work for them? All humans have flaws so expecting people to make something out of nothing by sheer will is a little much for me to believe.

If you think you are poor and yet have land, you are missing a very large part of the equation on this topic. Land for many is an almost impossible proposition.

I know a single mom with one daughter that works two jobs for about 75 hours a week. She only buys the necessities and has to go to the food bank. After a babysitter and bills she has only a hundred or two dollars left and that she puts into her daughters college fund. How is she supposed to get ahead?

What do the rich do after they amass billions? Give it away and help humankind? No, start amassing power. The rich compare themselves to the rich. Who can do more with their money. The world becomes a chess board for them and who doesn't love a good game of chess.

I believe that a good government should take from the rich and help the poor be able to get ahead by providing a real education they can afford. I don't see why the government can't supply housing, food, classes and clothes for people that are making the grade.

I firmly believe in keeping what you earned by working for it, the problem is that most of the rich didn't work or earn their money, it was given to them by their parents. Why not a slice shaved off from every inheritance to go to education for the less fortunate?

 

[my nellie]

Sorce said: I mean....what the fuck does money really Buy?
Bolero says: It can buy you a lot of Security....

Wealthiest people of the world do surround themselves with bodyguards, live into fortresses, travel in armored cars with bullet-proof glass, own their private airplanes etc, etc
But their money can not buy them the lots of Security, Bolero said.
Some of the wealthiest people Al Hariri and French banker Stern come to mind.
You might say their sudden tragic death was due to accidental facts. I will say that their wealth was proved not enough to save them from accidental facts and to buy them lots of security.

Money can give you almost everything.....'cept the stones and the brains to do what's right with it!!

Because money corrupts human nature!

 

[Anthony]

General response -

On our side education makes the difference, and up to University it is free.
Then there are two attitudes to education -------- get a job ------ or go into research.

On our side you can also get a scholarship, which will pay for almost all.

So you do well in your O and A levels. Choose research ------------- speaking from experience here.

As land goes in my days [ 25 years old ] land was $500.00 US for acre [ agriculture ] and $1,000.00 US other.
Both were accessible.

Additionally, you purchase for your children.

In my case it was thinking that got me where I am.

Today we help cousins.

What has been observed is the various schemes to not be educated, to be brain lazy.
Get a job, play the game. Overload the system ----------------- Lawyer, Doctor, Engineer, and so on.
University, but no research. What we call Technicians.

Why do folk go into politics down here ----------- for the fat pensions .
Almost all of our politicians are from poor families and they just want comfort.
Not equipped for the jobs, mentally. No education for the ministry they work in.

The key to note, is our education system is free, but the parents offer play station etc.
So there is no cost factor, University use to be 2,000.00 US a year.
It is an old game by the way.

So if someone is Rich, and they honestly obtained [ I have no problems with families that
are historically rich either, that is their business ] on our side they pay taxes just like everyone
else. We use VAT and personal taxes.

I am just not keen on playing in school and then expecting handouts or making your
own problems and expecting handouts.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Cadillactaste]

Not offended @Anthony ...

I grew up with very little. My mom worked...my dad when he could..paid child support. But you know what,I see things differently. Than poor being a sad group to belong to.

Dirt poor can be the happiest group by far...sure they have their struggles. My grandma's sister Delsi...she was far worse financially than us. Outdoor outhouse for their bathroom. I'm 45 yrs old...I recall when visiting we weren't so much as allowed to take a piece of bread. For she would give her last not knowing where the next come. But I remember the laughter over the poverty when visiting.

I believe all should work if they financially need the pay and take pride in what they have...even if it isn't as much as say their neighbors. Live within ones means...we have no credit cards my husband nor I with a balance. We believe in buying within ones means...put back for a rainy day...Our home is paid off...coming from very little I see the blessings in where God has brought us...the path he's placed my family on.

The low income an income..."preferably with a job" they can be prideful when they cash their check. A job they know they did their best at the end of the day. Isn't that what all should strive for? Though, some try harder to not work...it's those who I shake my head at.

But heading out in June to a third world country, where many don't know where their next meal is coming from. Dirt floors where ruts from rain water runs through their front room. Tin roofs...stick walls...a hammock for a bed. Brings a new level to low income...wouldn't you say? Their government doesn't offer assistance either. So...I totally see things entirely differently. There will always be classes...you will always have the poor...and the wealthy. No matter how hard you try to overcome it. It will always be there.

But I agree with @sorce "what does money really buy...?" Depends on the person. Some it will allow them to not try and tell their stomachs they are hungry. The extras...are just that. Maybe nice...but, I personally have seen the poorest of poor. And though hunger was in their eyes. They were still prideful. They were proud of their children...and there was love. Some of the wealthiest don't have the love that money can't buy.

 

[Anthony]

Darlene,

both mum and dad had outhouses and one was in the UK - chuckle.

I studied Japanese and English houses ---------- wattle and daub ----- Nic is building one in two years.
Clay / bamboo / stones and so on.
With a thatched roof.
Let you see when it is done. Bet you can't tell the difference from brick and concrete.

As to food - cassava makes flour and I can name a host of other starches we grow down here.
I am afraid, with rainfall and tropical climates it is hard to starve.
Oil from coconuts, fish farming and so on..............
It would be very hard to starve.
My point is we can get by very well, because of education and a willingness to work.

I earned to weave when I was 5 in school.

We have a proper water supply, and water tanks [ 400 to 50,000 gallons ] and the rainfall is
at 5 to 6 feet.
One can also build watertanks.

So it is very hard for me to understand how folk can be hard up in the tropics.
I can see that with winter, but not eternal summer.

We have many squatters down here, who are just lazy. House is plywood from car or other shipping.
To lazy to plant crops, corn, dascheen, tomatoes, green peppers etc.
Corn is how we feed the chickens and agoutis live on greens, as do goat/sheep.
We also have other local animals like small deer, a large turkey type and one can easily fish farm on
the coast or inland.

This is why it is difficult to understand Venezuela and the hungry. They have way more arable land
than we do at three levels, tropical, sub-tropical and temperate.
Once again the people have grown lazy.

I guess I am all for education and 5 acres and Independence and working physically.

This is why I couldn't understand the village you stay in and the 1.5 hour of water.
Simple solar set-ups [ K house example ] can power 5 rooms at 100 watt illumination for 24 hrs.
I wouldn't be able to sit still and not make it better.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Cadillactaste]

There just is no work...no jobs. No education for many. It's a different life. Seeing twins with swollen stomachs...skin and bones for the rest of their body. Mountains don't have fish I imagine? My doctor said swollen stomachs are from lack of protein. You have a high education system around you. Free education...they have to pay to go to school in the village I go. So not many attend school. The pastor of our village asked to be reassigned to further his education. It's just so remote...that there is no work. There are some farming areas. But only so many hands needed to tend them. It's a different world from what you speak of in your area. Very primitive...very poor. You have a few families which have had education and are better off. But few and far between. There is a school being built that is beginning to be funded by missionary groups to offer education to the children who can't afford it. But it's slow going and in only one village of the frontier that I know of. And not in our village. There are six village in the frontier. Magdalena is but one of them.