Asagi discussion

[Bonsai Nut]

Hi Dick;

To continue our discussion, here are two asagi. I am curious about the difference between the two scale lines. The first has scale lines that start at the head and form a perfect arc head to tail. The second younger koi has scale lines that start at the head and go IN towards the spine, and then arc to the tail. On the second fish, is this permanent? As the fish grows and fills out, will these lines at the head ever bow outward and become more perfect? Or will this fish always have these less than optimal scales lines (makes shoulders look narrow, head look big, etc)?

 

[dick benbow]

I remember attending a seminar once with a japanese breeder as they discussed two year old gosanke. Questions from the audience asked about future development and as the interpreter asked the question to the breeder, he started to laugh as he heard the answer.
"Just a minute and I'll go ask God".
I include this story because it is hard sometimes to know exactly how to answer .
This is definetely one of those times.
It is my opinion that the second koi, even tho the body cavity behind the head and in front of the dorsal should enlarge with age, the scalation lines should remain the same even as the body develops.
The first Asagi is picture perfect for competition. red in all the right places, great net pattern
between the asgai-han blue pattern and nice white forehead.
The second younger koi is on it's way. The red in the pecs should draw down closer to it's sides to create what is known as moto-aka ( fan shaped red in the pecs.)
many asgai don't develop red in the dorsal till after their second year and then it starts as mere red dots about the size of a Be-Be. Over the next year it expands and begins to fill in.
The only other concern with the second koi is I can't see in the photograph any red in the tail.
That usually tends to be there as a one year old and not something that fills in like the dorsal in advancing age. But again with different breeders, their line may develop differently from someone else's.
Most of my hands on knowledge comes from hosokai and otsuka lines.
In competition, judges take into accord that a fish with perfect pattern missing red in the tail, can still be best in it's size class depending on what else it's competitors bring to the competition. So we really have to be understanding that a perfect fish is difficult to obtain
and a beautiful koi with other accomplishments can be competitive. It's all relative to what they are up against on the day.
Asagi was the first color variety stabilized. All other color varieties came after this one.
I hope something in my comments help in understanding and appreciating this beautiful Koi.
The term in japanese for the red belly up to the lateral line is translated to say " ships bottom", which in many countries is painted red

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thanks a lot Dick! The first fish won the All-Japan Show - best of Asagi. I use it as my "gold standard" to compare other Asagi to.

Here are two photos of the side of the second fish. Sorry they are so small but it is all I have.

I see a LITTLE red in the tail. But at this point it is truly a couple of red specks. If I read you correctly, this may be all you will get with this fish?

 

[dick benbow]

It's actually a nice lil koi. In shows, while we can be critical, a better fish has to be entered in order to beat it. the fact that you spy some red in the tail is a good sign. hopefully this koi will
begin sprouting some red along the dorsal.

All the ship's bottom red on the belly is well below the lateral line ( actual "ears" of the Koi )
and red seems to even drop lower behind the vent area in the tail section. A good sign as the usual first place red is over run at is at the base of the tail.

Let's this this fish in another year and see how it is doing! Red is strong on this fish so the owner needs to refrain from encouraging it by NOT feeding color food. ( in the ingredients list it would be those items named as spirulina algea and shrimp meal. )

 

[dick benbow]

just finished up an article for KOI USA. Nope not on Koi, but on Suiseki
last October they published an article I did on bonsai....

 

[dick benbow]

here's an asagi variety you don't see too often. A yuki or snow one. With GR it kind of makes up for the lose of the asagi han. I have to admitt I'm not much of a "bling" fan but is something newer and "different".

 

[Bonsai Nut]

here's an asagi variety you don't see too often. A yuki or snow one. With GR it kind of makes up for the lose of the asagi han. I have to admitt I'm not much of a "bling" fan but is something newer and "different".

The single red eye would drive me nuts. I find the eyes really important for my own personal enjoyment when viewing fish - if they have mismatched eyes it needs to be part of the character of the overall pattern for me to enjoy it.

How common is a Hi Akebi or Hi Mizu Asagi? (with red scale markings?) Are these asagi recognizable as young fish or does the red come in later?

 

[dick benbow]

Red is the challenge of asagi. In the first cull, you rid yourself of the all red ones. I find this odd as their doutsu cousins (shusui) has a color variety of Hi Shusui.

by the 3rd and 4th cull you watch the red does not exceed the lateral line with emphasis on the tail region where it can easily run over the blue and then begin working forward.

With those asagi types you mentioned, you really have to watch the red thru out their lifetime.
Standard asagi give you a good luck of what they will be at the age of 3. One does have to be sensitive to a mixed pond of many varieties not to feed color food to encourage more red.

as an aside you see an attached pic of a hi asagi. miraculously it was not destroyed, and i have been gifted with it and it arrives today. I love it because it is the heighth of the japanese concept of wabi-sabi. Imperfect in man's concept of asagi beauty.

you can tell the difference between this coloration of asagi and aka matsuba by the blue pine coning as opposed to black in matsuba.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Looking forward to seeing better pics! Right now it is too small for me to see much, though I understand what you are saying about the difference between Asagi and Matsuba scales.

Maybe I should just grow out some flawed asagi, and you can have all the wabi-sabi you have room in your pond for

 

[dick benbow]

this backyard producer of the hi asagi, I have looking thru her white stuff (culls) to see if she can find any with red fins.....snow asagi....LOL, ponds too small for all these favorite fish

 

[jaro333]

Wow that's a great Asagi scale measurement its amazing for me that when i saw the pic of the Asagi beauty i saw the pic first time..Why are you compared the both Asagi?Whats a reason behind them?


Prime Scales Store

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Yes!

Hey! My Asagi won Best Non-Pattern Fish at Andrew's Annual Koi Contest here in Southern Cal! $200 and a $60 bag of koi food! Sweet!

I told them everything I knew I learned from Dick

 

[dick benbow]

Congratulations, How Kool is that!

I do love my Asagi and have put a lot of effort into study. Kinda like my quince bonsai.

 

[Si Nguyen]

Congrats BNut! Sorry I missed that show
I'd like to see the winning fish. How about a glimpse?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Congrats BNut! Sorry I missed that show
I'd like to see the winning fish. How about a glimpse?

I'm going back up there tomorrow - want to join me?

This year they have an entire TANK of Asagi. It was fun to sit there with two or three others as we picked through them and talked about what we saw.

Let me check my camera and see what I have. I can't recall if I took photos of MY fish - I was too interested in OTHER peoples' fish. Otherwise I will have to take a photos of it in my pond. Don't get excited - it is not a perfect fish But it is a lot of fun to see how it has developed in one year. A year ago it had just a dot of red on the tail, and nothing on the dorsal. Now it has a very red tail and a perfect red line along the base of the dorsal.