Atlas cedar - to repot or not

[greenleaves]

Picked up a pot grown atlas cedar the other day. It's completely root bound (barely penetrable brick). The branches need development and I'm wondering if I should use the strength in the roots to work that this year versus trying to begin transition to a better pot/soil situation. Information on starting from this point seems scarce. Thoughts on this one?

 

[Adair M]

Repot. Start working the nebari. How can you even think about styling, picking the best front, without seeing the nebari?

Always start with working the nebari/roots. They take the longest to correct. Start there.

 

[penumbra]

Repot now. Timing is perfect.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

I’d agree with Adair, deal with the roots first. In case you hadn’t heard, the word on the street is: this species often responds poorly to root pruning. Here’s an informative post from a reputable source:

Atlantic/Atlas Cedar repot in autumn/fall

Hi everyone, Has anyone out there had experience(good or bad) with repotting a Cedrus atlantica in autumn/fall? Have you ever a had a single branch on a Cedrus atlantica die? Did you explore the root system and what were the results/findings? Grant

www.bonsainut.com

 

[greenleaves]

Repot. Start working the nebari. How can you even think about styling, picking the best front, without seeing the nebari?

Always start with working the nebari/roots. They take the longest to correct. Start there.

Thanks, that was my first inclination as well as this seems like the best time from what ive read.

 

[Adair M]

I’d agree with Adair, deal with the roots first. In case you hadn’t heard, the word on the street is: this species often responds poorly to root pruning. Here’s an informative post from a reputable source:

Atlantic/Atlas Cedar repot in autumn/fall

Hi everyone, Has anyone out there had experience(good or bad) with repotting a Cedrus atlantica in autumn/fall? Have you ever a had a single branch on a Cedrus atlantica die? Did you explore the root system and what were the results/findings? Grant

www.bonsainut.com

I have two of them. They repot just like any other conifer.

 

[MichaelS]

I have two of them. They repot just like any other conifer.

I have thirty of them and they DO NOT repot just like any other conifer unless they have been root pruned at least 6 times. They absolutely hate repotting and often drop needles. If you remove too many roots all the needles will drop off and it may not recover. The roots are not like pines even though they are related. They are fine worm-like roots that thicken only very slowly and they do not ramify anything like as easy as a pine does. I HIGHLY recommend you shave off a few cm of the outer roots and tease the remainder out A BIT. Then run a knife longitudinally and rather deeply in 3 or 4 places at equal distances down the root ball and pot up. You need to work on the nebari only if the tree is strong enough to accept it. This would be the first step in a root bound Cedar.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

I have thirty of them and they DO NOT repot just like any other conifer unless they have been root pruned at least 6 times. They absolutely hate repotting and often drop needles. If you remove too many roots all the needles will drop off and it may not recover.

I’m guessing Brent leans on an experience greater than 2 as well. Don’t quote me, just a wild guess.

 

[greenleaves]

I have thirty of them and they DO NOT repot just like any other conifer unless they have been root pruned at least 6 times. They absolutely hate repotting and often drop needles. If you remove too many roots all the needles will drop off and it may not recover. The roots are not like pines even though they are related. They are fine worm-like roots that thicken only very slowly and they do not ramify anything like as easy as a pine does. I HIGHLY recommend you shave off a few cm of the outer roots and tease the remainder out A BIT. Then run a knife longitudinally and rather deeply in 3 or 4 places at equal distances down the root ball and pot up. You need to work on the nebari only if the tree is strong enough to accept it. This would be the first step in a root bound Cedar.

that seems like a safe approach. Id like to get the top few layers of noodles off at least this year to see if there is even any meaningful nebari at all, given it was pot grown there might not be much to work with yet

 

[greenleaves]

I have thirty of them

Are these in Australia? I should ask if you think the climate difference between there and western washington (temperate and rainy) would make a difference in needing such a long staged process?

 

[Adair M]

I have thirty of them and they DO NOT repot just like any other conifer unless they have been root pruned at least 6 times. They absolutely hate repotting and often drop needles. If you remove too many roots all the needles will drop off and it may not recover. The roots are not like pines even though they are related. They are fine worm-like roots that thicken only very slowly and they do not ramify anything like as easy as a pine does. I HIGHLY recommend you shave off a few cm of the outer roots and tease the remainder out A BIT. Then run a knife longitudinally and rather deeply in 3 or 4 places at equal distances down the root ball and pot up. You need to work on the nebari only if the tree is strong enough to accept it. This would be the first step in a root bound Cedar.

Gee, I guess I have no idea what I’m doing!

Here are pictures of my two:






I repot mine in the spring, just like any other conifer, and I’ve had no issues with needles dropping.

 

[Colorado]

But, @Adair M , just imagine how much better yours would be if you had “run a knife longitudinally and rather deeply in 3 or 4 places” like you were carving the Thanksgiving Turkey!

 

[MichaelS]

Gee, I guess I have no idea what I’m doing

No it's just that you don't have any idea what you're reading...They are fine after they have been root pruned a number of times. ....as I said. But maybe because you buy your trees already developed you can't imagine what it's like starting from scratch like us poor people.

 

[MichaelS]

But, @Adair M , just imagine how much better yours would be if you had “run a knife longitudinally and rather deeply in 3 or 4 places” like you were carving the Thanksgiving Turkey!

You may laugh but it is a well proven technique to stop root spiralling (which cedars are very good at) and done by professional tree growers every day world wide.

 

[MichaelS]

Are these in Australia? I should ask if you think the climate difference between there and western washington (temperate and rainy) would make a difference in needing such a long staged process?

Yes Australia. Moderate climate hardly any frosts. I don't think it makes any difference. There is an old saying in bonsai, ''The more you rush, the smarter you ain't''

 

[MichaelS]

that seems like a safe approach. Id like to get the top few layers of noodles off at least this year to see if there is even any meaningful nebari at all, given it was pot grown there might not be much to work with yet

You can go ahead and cut the worms. Just leave them there.

 

[Ali Raza]

Gee, I guess I have no idea what I’m doing!

Here are pictures of my two:


View attachment 286464

View attachment 286467

I repot mine in the spring, just like any other conifer, and I’ve had no issues with needles dropping.

love your cedar tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I’d agree with Adair, deal with the roots first. In case you hadn’t heard, the word on the street is: this species often responds poorly to root pruning. Here’s an informative post from a reputable source:

Atlantic/Atlas Cedar repot in autumn/fall

Hi everyone, Has anyone out there had experience(good or bad) with repotting a Cedrus atlantica in autumn/fall? Have you ever a had a single branch on a Cedrus atlantica die? Did you explore the root system and what were the results/findings? Grant

www.bonsainut.com

@greenleaves & @Captain.Bonsai
The Brent in this linked BNut thread is Brent Walston, of Evergreen Gardenworks. He is a commercial, full time nursery, that raises trees specifically intended to become pre-bonsai. One of the best nurseries for young, pre-bonsai stock. Brent knows of what he speaks, as he has over the years produced hundreds of cedars. Pay attention to his comments about local micro-climate, why he does his when fully dormant and why Bob Shimone does is later, Bob's climate is more moist, and less heat. Then think about what your local climate is, and how that might affect the trees. What would be best timing in YOUR climate.

Brent is a member here, occasionally posts, but most of the time he is unavailable, as he is swamped taking care of his bonsai nursery.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Agree to repot now upper tree later after recovery.

 

[Adair M]

This thread came up in my feed, so I’ll post an update:

I repotted this tree back in early March. It was pretty potbound. I half bare rooted the section of the rootball on the right. It’s in a slightly larger pot now:



After I repotted, it did drop the two year old needles, but retained the needles it made last year.

There are buds everywhere, and it is now budding out profusely all over.