Bark features of container grown vs. ground grown trees.

[Brian Van Fleet]

But; the JBP leaves a little to be desired in the way of foliage and ramification issues.

Whaaaa??? JBP has been for me, by far, the easiest pine species to gain ramification and needle reduction. Needles from 4" down to scarcely over 1" by simple candle cutting over just a few seasons.

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1...MAGE_00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000004B1.JPG

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

From this:


To this:

In 5 seasons...

And some bark to boot...

 

[amkhalid]

But; the JBP leaves a little to be desired in the way of foliage and ramification issues.

Compared to what?

JBP has dead straight needles and its vigour allows it to ramify incredibly fast. I can't think of a better pine.

 

[Dan W.]

I agree, this thread is very informative.

I have also read in Collin Lewis' book about wraping trunks on elms to mature the bark more quickly.

And Vance, thanks for adding ponderosa to your list. I think many of the yamadori pondy's have bark that can at least compete with most of the JBP's around. I have some that survived a fire several years back...and the bark on them is just amazing.

 

[Vance Wood]

I'm not going to argue "my Pinus is better than your Pinus" but you did point out what I initially said; it's pretty hard to beat the bark on a JBK, which is what I said.

 

[Jacksmom]

Being a newbie to bonsai, I am a little hesitant to add to this conversation. But I remembered a story that Andy Smith of Golden Arrow Bonsai wrote. Andy, has many of you know, has collected many wonderful ponderosas and other species. He writes in his story "Get a Bigger Hammer", http://www.goldenarrowbonsai.com/goldenarrowbonsai.com/Stories_Pg6_files/Beatit.htm, of using a hammer to help mature the bark. "The theory is that if you carefully and regularly tap on the trunk of your tree with a small hammer the trunk will respond by getting thicker and rougher until eventually you’ll have this fantastic tree with a trunk so massive and ancient looking that you’d swear that saints once walked beneath it." He goes on to state that "What opened my eyes and changed my mind about this was observing the way some trees in nature respond to the stress of growing in a narrow crack. By now I think it’s a fairly well known phenomenon that trees, especially conifers that are collected from very narrow crevices on rock outcrops, often exhibit a huge basal swelling. That is, their lower trunk is often gigantic in relation to the size of the tree."

Now, he does not give any specific instructions as to how to swing the hammer, but I loved his wonderful story telling and insight.

 

[Dan W.]

Thanks Vance,

I apologize if my post came across as trying to argue. I just wanted to credit the ponderosa bark as well. I agree that JBP bark is awesome.

 

[Dan W.]

I have seen a lot of variance in bark texture among the ponderosa's while I've been collecting. I have three nice ones that were collected last year. One has very strong deeply fisured, black/grey bark; another has very smooth, grey bark for ponderosa and another (youngest of the bunch) is in-between the two with strong black/red bark. They were all growing in very similar conditions on granite within about a square mile. The first one very clearly survived a forest fire in past years and possibly the third one as well. While the second/with smooth bark appears to have been out of the fires path. Does anyone know anything about pine bark characteristics in fire situations? Ponderosa can be quite fire retardant and I would imagine that fire may cause the tree to beef up it's bark layers...? New bonsai practice...? lol

 

[Vance Wood]

I have seen a lot of variance in bark texture among the ponderosa's while I've been collecting. I have three nice ones that were collected last year. One has very strong deeply fisured, black/grey bark; another has very smooth, grey bark for ponderosa and another (youngest of the bunch) is in-between the two with strong black/red bark. They were all growing in very similar conditions on granite within about a square mile. The first one very clearly survived a forest fire in past years and possibly the third one as well. While the second/with smooth bark appears to have been out of the fires path. Does anyone know anything about pine bark characteristics in fire situations? Ponderosa can be quite fire retardant and I would imagine that fire may cause the tree to beef up it's bark layers...? New bonsai practice...? lol

Never heard of fire retardant characteristics of Ponderosa but I can tell you that Jack Pine is fairly fire retardant. One year when we went camping we built a legal camp fire and found a piece of Jack Pine and threw it on the fire. We kept the fire burning all night and next day. At the end of our camping trip we had consumed all sorts of scrap wood and all we had left was ashes and this one piece of Jack Pine un burnt and only smoke blackened. Other wise it was intact. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would not have believed it.

By the Way it was not your comments about Black Pine that provoked my response and in either case no apology is necessary.

 

[tanlu]

Pitch pine also is quite fire retardant, and it's bark is wonderfully rugged. I love the bark on ponderosa pines, but I'm not a fan of the foliage. It's only in scale on large bonsai.

JBP can definitely be used to set the bar for desirable characteristics in pines, but that still depends on what qualities you're looking for to compliment the overall design. IMO, non-grafted JWP have characteristics are very complimentary to literati, forest, and clump styles, more so than JBP.