Berra's Satsuki Nyohozan

[Leo in N E Illinois]

It will take me a while to consume and fully understand and evaluate all this info in the thread. For what its worth, I looked up the water's properties: it is reported as 4-6 dH. This should be "soft to moderately hard"

Excellent. This means that you can use the water with out adjustment. I forget the exact conversion, but a 6 dH is roughly 110 mg/ liter as calcium carbonate. Moderate enough to use without treatment. The azalea will cope.

 

[Berra]

Update a couple of months later. I have watered the tree a bit less frequently. Also did a new good rinse of the fertilizer Still left in the soil back in June when this thread was created. I have kept the tree in the most wind protected place on my balcony and also I have kept it almost completely in full shade. When i kept it with a bit of evening sun following advice in this thread, some tips were still turning orange like before.

All in all, i think the frequency of these leaf damages have gone down. And new growth seems less affected now than back in June. Still have lots to learn about the maintenance of this tree but am a bit less afraid it will die completely right now.

Some leaf tips have a bit of a red/Brown tint to Them, but not completely dried out as before

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nicely done! Still just a tad yellowish, looks like on one side from the two photos. A couple thought/questions, if that’s ok.
How are you rotating the tree? What is your fertilizing regime? Does it get any sun, or just high shade?
cheers
DSD sends

 

[Berra]

Nicely done! Still just a tad yellowish, looks like on one side from the two photos. A couple thought/questions, if that’s ok.
How are you rotating the tree? What is your fertilizing regime? Does it get any sun, or just high shade?
cheers
DSD sends

It gets no sun at all right now since i worried that was what caused the tip issues. No fertilizing since may, except some new kanuma if that counts. Considering to start applying PK (No N) now and during the fall.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ok.

Kanuma is an evolved pumice that contains a little humic acid, which will help mycorrhizal growth, but it isn’t fertilizer.

It seems the tree will benefit with addition of some early morning sun, say an hour or so, if possible, to start with.

Also a light fertilizer application would likely help too. Personally I wouldn’t worry about a low nitrogen fertilizer at all. It is an evergreen azalea, vs a deciduous tree. I would think an organic slow release fertilizer cake and/or a natural liquid emulsion type, like fish fertilizer at 1/2 strength to start with would be best. (I use at 2-4x strength plus slow release to good effect, but my azaleas are used to this and a strong watering regime with kanuma/chopped spaghnum media, but that’s a different story). I’d fertilize every two weeks if things look good after the first trial...but make sure you water regularly and completely. You don’t want fertilizer build up.

If you are concerned about the media being too wet, “chock up” one side of the pot. If you are using straight kanuma it should hold water and drain well at the same time.

In your case, easy does it. Add a little light and a little fertilizer, regular, complete watering and see if things green up a bit. You could add one the first week and the other the next so you can see the effect of each.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Berra]

Update: It is now finally spring here. The winter was mild until February which was almost constantly -10 to -20 C (-4 to 14 F). This tree was in a plastic tent with a heater set to +4C.

The soil was frozen solid for long periods and even though I had put mulch around the pot, I thought thr tree would maybe not make it. So I was happy when I saw new growth.

So far it seems like the problem I wrote this thread about has gone away. I don't see the dried out leaf tips now.

Status: Did build a wind protection "screen". Did not fertilize yet. No repotting or touching roots since last year. Have been misting the top a lot.

I found out that some parts of the trunk (around large cuts made by someone else) were rotten and hidden by cut paste. Not a fun discovery. I cleared the rotten Wood out best I could, and put epoxy putty in its place. (Actually, this is visible in One of the first pics in this thread, I just didnt know yet)

I am currently not sure whether or not to start fertilizing after the flowering is over. Even though the tree seems to be in a better shape this year, I just don't have enough experience to make an informed decision here... More specifically I cannot assess the health of the plant.

Currently just following previous advice to let it have morning sun and protect from wind and sun rest of the day.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

By all indications it looks like you have really done well! Nice flowers btw! Nyohozan is one of my favorites. Be aware it has multiple sports that may show so you can take advantage of these to start a other cultivars by getting cuttings off these specific sporting flower branches from your tree if these show in any of your blooms.

Yes you can fertilize the tree after it blooms. As mentioned before I use a pellet type fertilizer with a liquid fertilizer (miracle grow for acid loving plants and humic acid) every two weeks on Satsuki 1/2 strength to start with. But you may want to try others. Start slow in any case.

Nyohozan is known to respond well to pruning, but a bit slow grower. You will need to prune after the flowers are done and likely before July for this cultivar.

btw: You might try to increase the amount of sun a bit more. The Japanese Masters report that additional sun yields brighter colored flowers.

Peter Warren had a couple decent videos on Satsuki azalea… and one not…. I think this one is on point for your situation as your tree appears to be in the refinement stage.

Cheers and let’s hear more about this tree soon.
DSD sends

 

[Berra]

Thanks so much for your advice Deep Sea Diver! I think I saw that video last year but I should definitely watch it again now.

 

[Berra]

This year we moved from apartment with balcony to a house with a small garden. This tree that was previously stressed seems to be in better condition now. It had a bit of dark red on the leaf tips last year, but no orange. This year I have not seen any issues.

Now it gets sunlight during the morning, and usually it is shaded by large shrubs by noon.

The plan going forwards is to rebuild the apex.

Not sure if I should give it a prune/haircut this year? Maybe time for that?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes. After flowering. At least take each flower site to two new branchlets, each branchlet to two leaves

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Now that you have a healthy tree, I’d like to add a couple notes For you to ponder. There are a couple things going on with your azlaea, all good, yet the6 likely need to be attended to for the trees’ overall health, stylistically and to redevelop the apex.

A couple thoughts.

First the tree, like all Nyohosen and many azaleas, is pushing out growth wherever it can.

The key things each and every branch and branchlet needs is sun and sap/energy flow to survive. Since azaleas a basally dominant, he lower branches try to hog the energy flow, at the expense of the apex.

Each flower site pushes out 4-6 branchlets. If unpruned the tree starts developing multiple ‘cartwheels’ of branches from each from site. This causes a sun blocking canopy that shades the inner branches, thickens the junction itself as lots of sap has to flow through, disrupts the flow and hogs the resources…. especially if located on the lower 2/3 of the tree or at branch tips.

Also sucker branches emanate from the trunk in random spots. These can be a good thing, if one needs to create a new branch, otherwise these pull resources away from the rest of the tree, shade out important inner branching and disrupt the design flow.

Finally adventitious buds push forth multiple branchlets whenever the branch gets enough sun and resources. These can be a good thing for creating ramification, yet a bad thing if they are shaded out by a canopy crowded by cartwheel branchlets.

So what does this mean for this tree?

The outer canopy is shading the interior and lower 2/3 of the tree hogging the energy.

Also…The interior branches are being crowded and shaded, weakening and dying off, disrupting the ramification

The solution to this situation will take a couple three years to accomplish. The tree needs to be simplified to two branches at each junction styling each branch into a pad. This will force the structure to be made up of multiple tiers, allowing air flow and sunlight into the interior.

Also the basal regions need to be pushed in.

Here is an example of a tree I’ve been working on for two years. The apex was weak, the overall energy was low, the tree was crowded and all the strength was on the edge of the canopy. Over the next two years the apex will be pushed in. One of these days I’ll get around to posting this tree on a thread. Or not.


cheers
DSD sends

 

[Berra]

Thanks so much for your continuous guidance DSD. Is it something along the lines of these images you recommend? Or lighter pruning?

(Screen caps from Instagram, sorry if it is not allowed to share these here because of copyright issues)

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice images.

Your tree isn’t here yet, What is posted is an example of standard pruning on a refined, balanced growth satsuki. I’ve seen these done in March and after flowering depending on the state of the tree and the golals of the artist. As you can imagine, these trees have issues with sun being able to penetrate the outer canopy so the inner branches get weak. Hence the strong global cut back.

This is where you want to be in a couple years, evenly spaced balanced growth. Note the example tree has a strong apex with more branchlets per area to compete for energy. This is the opposite on your tree.

So your tree needs more of a selective cut back on the strong regions to shift energy …. while revlalizing the growth and foliage of the lower branches. (all azaleas need their growth cut back and regenerated in part each year to maintain branch/pad health, this basal push back will help a lot.)

Just for clarity, here are the basic steps I follow when doing this job.

Direct these steps below only to the strong parts of the tree. (btw: Take a step back to view what you’ve done every once in awhile to center and orient yourself.)

- Go to each branch pad and cut any downwards growth and suckers. (This helps define the pads.)

- Then cut any crossing or growth going in towards the trunk. (Clears the clutter.)

- At this point the pads will become defined . Look at each branch pad and selectively thin the pad growth to two branches at each junction. Keep younger growth over older growth whenever you can. (Revitalizes the branch growth.)

- Cut all new growth back to two leaves. (Slows, but doesn’t stop outward growth.)

- On the outer edges of each pad, look for areas where one can push growth inwards to the next inner junction. Cut these. (Pushes growth back to inside the profile)

Once this is complete more energy will be shifted upwards to help build the apex.

There is a next step used for refined trees, its result is shown in the first instagram photo. Not sure you need this step yet.

I hope this helps

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Kullas]

Nice images.

Your tree isn’t here yet, What is posted is an example of standard pruning on a refined, balanced growth satsuki. I’ve seen these done in March and after flowering depending on the state of the tree and the golals of the artist. As you can imagine, these trees have issues with sun being able to penetrate the outer canopy so the inner branches get weak. Hence the strong global cut back.

This is where you want to be in a couple years, evenly spaced balanced growth. Note the example tree has a strong apex with more branchlets per area to compete for energy. This is the opposite on your tree.

So your tree needs more of a selective cut back on the strong regions to shift energy …. while revlalizing the growth and foliage of the lower branches. (all azaleas need their growth cut back and regenerated in part each year to maintain branch/pad health, this basal push back will help a lot.)

Just for clarity, here are the basic steps I follow when doing this job.

Direct these steps below only to the strong parts of the tree. (btw: Take a step back to view what you’ve done every once in awhile to center and orient yourself.)

- Go to each branch pad and cut any downwards growth and suckers. (This helps define the pads.)

- Then cut any crossing or growth going in towards the trunk. (Clears the clutter.)

- At this point the pads will become defined . Look at each branch pad and selectively thin the pad growth to two branches at each junction. Keep younger growth over older growth whenever you can. (Revitalizes the branch growth.)

- Cut all new growth back to two leaves. (Slows, but doesn’t stop outward growth.)

- On the outer edges of each pad, look for areas where one can push growth inwards to the next inner junction. Cut these. (Pushes growth back to inside the profile)

Once this is complete more energy will be shifted upwards to help build the apex.

There is a next step used for refined trees, its result is shown in the first instagram photo. Not sure you need this step yet.

I hope this helps

cheers
DSD sends

Thanks. Lots of good info here.

 

[Berra]

@Deep Sea Diver this is what it looks like after cutting as you suggested, after flowering.

Is the darker leaf color on picture three some early warning sign?

This year it has gotten plenty of sun, water and biogold

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Greetings! Yes.

A couple questions/observations. When did you do the cut back? Also, did you cutback the entire tree, or just the stronger parts?

Overall the tree looks in decent shape. There are weak areas, especially in the apex region. This is a sign to heed. This is something that happens in older trees and should be addressed …or these areas eventually weaken more and die back. These areas are denoted by older spring leaves that are more yellow then green, some showing blackened tips.

The reason this is happening is that as azaleas get older, the pathways for the sugars/starches/water etc slowly close down. So a variety of cutback methods are used from a basic cutback to a severe cutback are done to a tree to redistribute the energy and regrow these pathways.

Letting an azalea flower every year is an enormous drain on the tree’s energy. The weakest parts of the tree show it first. This is the reason why Japanese Satsuki professionals don’t let satsuki’s bloom every year. The cycle is: repot the first year, hard prune and wire the second, one year, and let the tree bloom the third. See BBS notes attached - (don’t agree about the hollowing the bottom of the shin during repotting though!)

Here’s a couple examples to illustrate the weak apex phenomenon.

Photo of tree by Melvyn Goldstein at UMich collection with strong apecies.


Photo of tree at PBM with weakened apex. Presently we are working on this tree, strongly pruning and pushing back the growth in the lower pads, while letting the top two run. This is a very exaggerated example.



Cutting back to twos, or the somewhat inaccurate slang term ‘the fishtail method‘ (because there are multiple variations of cutting back to twos, some don’t look like a fish tail) is the least invasive… more of a check to the growth. Since the tree isn’t in my care I recommended this treatment first to see how the tree would respond. The trees response to this cutback shows it needs some next level work.

Interestingly enough, Michael Hagedorn recently blogged about satsuki age issues and three different responses used depending on the state of the tree. Your tree doen’t quite fit into any of the three examples, yet the third example is the closest.

Please let us know the answers for the above questions and include a couple full on images around the tree, if you desire to discuss possible next steps, including getting on schedule, cleaning up the tree, defining pads and flowering.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Berra]

As always thanks for your thorough answer.

This year, I did apply what you refer to as the "fish tail" cut, only on the strongest parts of the tree. June 24th. There is one weak pad to the far right of picture 6 I didn't cut at all. I also didn't cut the apex at all.

Note that this was the first year I tried fish tail. Last year I cut back to two branches/shoots (where there were more than two) on all strong parts, but I didn't realize you could also cut back each shoot to two leafs.

This year I let the tree flower completely.

Last year (2021) I pinched off most of the flower buds right when they started to expand in may/June (I remember hearing it was beneficial to do this rather than take them away before expansion, due to hormone balance. But I can't find the source now. Probably a peter warren stream). But I kept some flowers last year.

Any comments on when to remove flowers in year 1,2? (Edit: ok, i read the Boston pdf now)

2020, I removed maybe 75% flower buds before they started expanding in spring. Repotted 2020. I also did a major cut back of the apex 2020, because I foolishly wanted it to be lower in relation to the overall tree. (Hadn't learned much about azaeleas/bonsai back then and it is a major reason why the apex is sparse/thin). Well, this thread was created after this screw up.

Aquired august 2019 and I don't know what happened that year and before.

I notice the soil has become a bit less well draining this year compared to 2020, 2021, so maybe I should repot next year.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

As always thanks for your thorough answer.

You are most welcome!

This year, I did apply what you refer to as the "fish tail" cut, only on the strongest parts of the tree. June 24th. There is one weak pad to the far right of picture 6 I didn't cut at all. I also didn't cut the apex at all.

That’s good looking back at when you first acquired the tree it is getting stronger.

Note that this was the first year I tried fish tail. Last year I cut back to two branches/shoots (where there were more than two) on all strong parts, but I didn't realize you could also cut back each shoot to two leafs.

Thats’s ok. While this action in ‘21 didn’t help the interior nor the apex, it did help get the tree stronger, but lanky-er.

This year I let the tree flower completely.

Ok. Here’s my thought.

There are two things in play. The tree really needs to be pruned back and wired back into pads to help develop density/interior/apical growth and to move forward towards the style you are desiring..

So next year how about a repot…. in a wider, deeper pot? Then next year a good pruning/full wiring? That will give you time to catch up on the techniques involved, if you haven’t already.

This will put also you on schedule. You can also do basic layout wiring a couple months later. Enough so you can start figuring out how to get the pads in shape, but nothing that moves the tree roots.

It seems to me the pot is more of a show pot, too narrow and shallow for good growing with such a thick trunk. You could trade up or save the pot for another awesome azalea perhaps? I can’t tell the present dimensions from your photo, but I’d add roughly 2.5 cm on each of the four sides and on bottom (interior dimensions). A decent wood box would do fine if being thrifty is important.

So no bare rooting. (It was good to do when you got the tree though). How about taking off no more than 1/5-1/4 (ish) all around the sides as you just repotted 2 years ago? You can take off more if you see black spots of dead roots. Trim off and loosen any dead roots on bottom, as a new container would accommodate more growth below.

Last year (2021) I pinched off most of the flower buds right when they started to expand in may/June (I remember hearing it was beneficial to do this rather than take them away before expansion, due to hormone balance. But I can't find the source now. Probably a peter warren stream). But I kept some flowers last year.

Any comments on when to remove flowers in year 1,2? (Edit: ok, i read the Boston pdf now)

So roughly just before the first buds change color.…

I removed maybe 75% flower buds before they started expanding in spring. Repotted 2020. I also did a major cut back of the apex 2020, because I foolishly wanted it to be lower in relation to the overall tree. (Hadn't learned much about azaeleas/bonsai back then and it is a major reason why the apex is sparse/thin). Well, this thread was created after this screw up.

Not entirely. The tree looks weak to me in your original photos back then. I think this is a recoverable faux pas

Aquired august 2019 and I don't know what happened that year and before.

I notice the soil has become a bit less well draining this year compared to 2020, 2021, so maybe I should repot next year.

This is a normal evolution due to the roots penetrating the Kanuma, breaking it down along the way, then developing finer roots through the small particles. That’s also one of the reasons the Japanese masters repot on a 3 year schedule.

When repotting I would gently drill (long 6-7 mm bit) the shin in 4-5 spots and backfill with small Kanuma to improve percolation in the shin.

I did this process to a bunch of species trees over the past three years and it’s remarkable how each of these trees picked up steam.

One thing I didn’t check about is your present fertilizer schedule and type. At this point the tree should be getting a really good fertilizer frequently. I use Miracid (which has all micronutrients in it) in combination with Osmocote Plus (which has micronutrients too) for trees that need to bulk out like yours. …. Miracid every 10-14 days normal strength. Stop by the end of September.

btw: Do you know the identity of this tree?

Sorry for going on and on. We are at the tail end of a heat wave. So I’m at home watering most of the time, mostly studying trees.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Just to give you an idea of pots used for larger Satsuki. Here is a photo of large Satsukis from Rick Garcia’s recent FB post.

Note the pot sizes and depth in relation to the trees.
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Cheers
DSD sends

 

[waydeo]

I have a thought on the balcony sun part. Aren't azaleas an understory shrub, meaning they are shaded by bigger trees from direct sun /wind /drying conditions . Also arent these microclimates wild azealias are found in the more humid and slightly more acidic. Just a thought. Great write up . Following for more info.