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[GrimLore]

I worked alongside him during that time frame......

If you are Marco "solo" why do you "troll" forums and blow smoke up people's privates - If you have a need to impress someone post a pic of a winning plant in a respected show... Your words have become "boring" at best and nobody seems to care

 

[Paradox]

Wow...wish Id made popcorn before getting to page 3.

Marco...Whatever man. No one here cares about your bonsai pedigree.
We all have our own reasons for doing bonsai. Many of us don't give a rats ass about showing trees now or ever. Many of us are here to learn. What comes of it later, or doesn't, doesn't matter.
Telling someone they should quit because they don't aspire to show trees is blatently wrong and you're an ass for saying it. Good thing you don't care about respect. You'll get none with your attitude.

Ryan...don't let this arrogant blowhard get to you. His opinion doesn't mean shit.
Life is too short and not worth getting worked up over small stuff like this.

Smoke....You're awesome. Thank you.

 

[october]

I worked alongside him during that time frame......

marco. I do understand that you currently have trees that you do not want to show. That is fine. Many chose to wait. However, and this is in no way a call out or anything of the kind. Don't you have any pics of your work or trees from back when you were actively doing bonsai? I mean, I realize that one could just search the net and post pics and say they are yours in hopes they will not be recognized. However, since you have not done this at this point, I doubt you would. You must have some pics of trees that you worked on at some point.

Rob

 

[jk_lewis]

buying decent stock is not a shortcut...

You are100% right.

Buying decent stock is a necessity. Over the years I've been here, I've seen more people exclaim proudly about what a cheap tree they found to make a bonsai with and when I see a picture of it I'm convinced they paid too much for it!

That old, trite saying that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear is doubly true in bonsai.

You MUST start with something decent if you hope to end up with something decent. And, to get something decent, you have to pay for it and stop crowing about that cheap deal that's no real deal at all.

And, I just shudder when someone says they will "learn from it" or it will be "a learning experience." All you learn is frustration when you start with an awkward, skinny-trunked twig that can only end up as an odd-looking skinny twig "bonsai."

You learn something when you have something decent to learn ON.

I'm sorry, but bonsai is not the ideal hobby for someone who cannot or is unwilling to spend some money on it, but good plants cost money, decent pots certainly cost money, the few good tools you need also cost money, and cutting corners on those things is counterproductive at the very least.

Better to have 3 good trees than 50 junky ones -- and they likely cost the same.

 

[misfit11]

Better to have 3 good trees than 50 junky ones -- and they likely cost the same.

It took me quite a while before I learned this. I now buy WAAAYYYY less material (I allow myself two trees a year ), but what I do buy is considerably higher quality.

 

[october]

You are100% right.

Buying decent stock is a necessity. Over the years I've been here, I've seen more people exclaim proudly about what a cheap tree they found to make a bonsai with and when I see a picture of it I'm convinced they paid too much for it!

That old, trite saying that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear is doubly true in bonsai.

You MUST start with something decent if you hope to end up with something decent. And, to get something decent, you have to pay for it and stop crowing about that cheap deal that's no real deal at all.

And, I just shudder when someone says they will "learn from it" or it will be "a learning experience." All you learn is frustration when you start with an awkward, skinny-trunked twig that can only end up as an odd-looking skinny twig "bonsai."

You learn something when you have something decent to learn ON.

I'm sorry, but bonsai is not the ideal hobby for someone who cannot or is unwilling to spend some money on it, but good plants cost money, decent pots certainly cost money, the few good tools you need also cost money, and cutting corners on those things is counterproductive at the very least.

Better to have 3 good trees than 50 junky ones -- and they likely cost the same.

I agree... The only exception would be where one is willing to train a stick for 15-20 years plus..lol..Then, you might get something nice. In most cases, time is a major factor. However. some trees, even after a long time, you realize that the journey was not worth it.

Rob

 

[GrimLore]

TY all! After helping the Wife with her trees for years in the last five I decided to experiment with and see what different types I could learn and make work. I thought it was better I learn to keep things alive before making purchases so I took the time. I did reduce the collection by 87 seedlings and saplings this year and kept under 30 to play with. That will give me time and room for nicer stock this Spring that will take me to the next level. Jumping in retired I thought given 5 more years to learn a lot could take me to what I call Level 2

 

[johng]

I worked alongside him during that time frame......

I guess you mean you did what he told you to do... Let's see...you are 22 now...you said winter 2007-8...that makes you 16 or 17. You didn't work along side him you worked for him...lets be honest now.

Arthur is really good, talented, humble and carefully spoken fellow...I would have to guess you missed out on those lessons from him given your behavior here.

Perhaps I am wrong but, you seem to want to go somewhere in bonsai...this forum represents a pretty good percentage of bonsai folks from all over the US. You might consider that before you ruin your reputation before it even gets started....might be too late already for some.

just a little food for thought...take it for what it cost you
John

 

[coh]

Interesting how the story changes in a few posts...from "(I) Overwintered the NC Arboretum collection between 2007-2008" to "I worked alongside him during that time frame"... "Guy Guidry, himself, called me the next Naka" to "I never really took it as much of a compliment"

Come on now, I think we're getting closer to the truth.

Chris

 

[D'Angelo]

Think I will chime in on this group of Cackeling hens!!....first off..Bonsai is an Art Form and viewed and appreciated differently by everyone. There are all levels of experienced bonsai artists, we all may excel in different areas of bonsai, therefore I see no problem having another artist either do the work or show you how...this is how we learn!! as far as cheating goes...well that's up to the owner of the tree, if they can be comfortable while showing their trees knowing they are faked, then so be it. But if the time ever comes to selling the said trees, I hope you would have the decency to reveal it!!..there are different levels of people, some just want trees to show off no matter what it takes, while others tend to care about true craftsmanship , honor and hard work...a good example of this is my line of work. I am what you would call a Master Firearms & Knife Engraver, the following pictures I provided shows 2 engraved guns...one is Mechanically engraved 1st pic (Grrrr)...while the other is the time honored Hand Engraved method using hammers, chisels and various home made tools. In my opinion, one is cheating while the other is not, but there are 2 different types of clientele, one type of engraving is for the average Joe Blow who just cares about a flashy gun and doesn't care how it was done, while the other client is a true Collector who pays top dollar for the time honored Craftsmanship and artistry involved. see how this relates to Bonsai?...both are an Art form, while one just aims at quick cheap results, the other aims for quality, originality and craftsmanship!!..All in all...Bonsai is an ArtForm...Everyone views it differently...Do what makes you happy!!

 

[tmmason10]

Think I will chime in on this group of Cackeling hens!!....first off..Bonsai is an Art Form and viewed and appreciated differently by everyone. There are all levels of experienced bonsai artists, we all may excel in different areas of bonsai, therefore I see no problem having another artist either do the work or show you how...this is how we learn!! as far as cheating goes...well that's up to the owner of the tree, if they can be comfortable while showing their trees knowing they are faked, then so be it. But if the time ever comes to selling the said trees, I hope you would have the decency to reveal it!!..there are different levels of people, some just want trees to show off no matter what it takes, while others tend to care about true craftsmanship , honor and hard work...a good example of this is my line of work. I am what you would call a Master Firearms & Knife Engraver, the following pictures I provided shows 2 engraved guns...one is Mechanically engraved 1st pic (Grrrr)...while the other is the time honored Hand Engraved method using hammers, chisels and various home made tools. In my opinion, one is cheating while the other is not, but there are 2 different types of clientele, one type of engraving is for the average Joe Blow who just cares about a flashy gun and doesn't care how it was done, while the other client is a true Collector who pays top dollar for the time honored Craftsmanship and artistry involved. see how this relates to Bonsai?...both are an Art form, while one just aims at quick cheap results, the other aims for quality, originality and craftsmanship!!..All in all...Bonsai is an ArtForm...Everyone views it differently...Do what makes you happy!!

View attachment 39313View attachment 39314

Wow, youve got some skills! Nice.

 

[D'Angelo]

Wow, youve got some skills! Nice.

Thanks!!...but I didnt post to show my work, it was to make a point !!...Bonsai is Art plain and simple, how one achieves the end result is up to them . And if I decide to buy a specimen tree and put it in a show...so be it!!...I paid for it, its my tree!!...but I would never take credit for another artists work!!...the credit would be given to who deserves it!!

 

[coh]

I am what you would call a Master Firearms & Knife Engraver, the following pictures I provided shows 2 engraved guns...one is Mechanically engraved 1st pic (Grrrr)...while the other is the time honored Hand Engraved method using hammers, chisels and various home made tools. In my opinion, one is cheating while the other is not, but there are 2 different types of clientele, one type of engraving is for the average Joe Blow who just cares about a flashy gun and doesn't care how it was done, while the other client is a true Collector who pays top dollar for the time honored Craftsmanship and artistry involved. see how this relates to Bonsai?...both are an Art form, while one just aims at quick cheap results, the other aims for quality, originality and craftsmanship!!..All in all...Bonsai is an ArtForm...Everyone views it differently...Do what makes you happy!!

So then it's not really cheating, right? You said so yourself, they are different products for different markets. It only becomes cheating if one tries to pass off the less expensive machine-made piece as hand-made.

But where is that line in bonsai, when really all of bonsai is about illusion and fakery, in a sense. We're using small trees to represent old, weather-beaten trees clinging to life. Sometimes we use shrubs - cotoneaster, azalea, boxwood - is it cheating to use a boxwood to represent an old live oak tree? Does it become cheating when we graft on branches or roots? How about if we replace all of the foliage with a finer type? And if it's OK to go that far, why not OK to go as far as attaching seedlings to a trunk-mold?

Chris

 

[Smoke]

Wow...wish Id made popcorn before getting to page 3.

Marco...Whatever man. No one here cares about your bonsai pedigree.
We all have our own reasons for doing bonsai. Many of us don't give a rats ass about showing trees now or ever. Many of us are here to learn. What comes of it later, or doesn't, doesn't matter.
Telling someone they should quit because they don't aspire to show trees is blatently wrong and you're an ass for saying it. Good thing you don't care about respect. You'll get none with your attitude.

Ryan...don't let this arrogant blowhard get to you. His opinion doesn't mean shit.
Life is too short and not worth getting worked up over small stuff like this.

Smoke....You're awesome. Thank you.

ahh...shucks

 

[D'Angelo]

So then it's not really cheating, right? You said so yourself, they are different products for different markets. It only becomes cheating if one tries to pass off the less expensive machine-made piece as hand-made.

But where is that line in bonsai, when really all of bonsai is about illusion and fakery, in a sense. We're using small trees to represent old, weather-beaten trees clinging to life. Sometimes we use shrubs - cotoneaster, azalea, boxwood - is it cheating to use a boxwood to represent an old live oak tree? Does it become cheating when we graft on branches or roots? How about if we replace all of the foliage with a finer type? And if it's OK to go that far, why not OK to go as far as attaching seedlings to a trunk-mold?

Chris

This is just my opinion, there is no cheating in Bonsai, its based on individual tastes and creativity. The end result for the owner is all that counts, not what everyone else thinks about it. But...if you are proud of the end results be sure not to hide it!!...Another words...dont try to pass it off for something its not!!!

 

[tmmason10]

Thanks!!...but I didnt post to show my work, it was to make a point !!...Bonsai is Art plain and simple, how one achieves the end result is up to them . And if I decide to buy a specimen tree and put it in a show...so be it!!...I paid for it, its my tree!!...but I would never take credit for another artists work!!...the credit would be given to who deserves it!!

I agree with you on this point. Further to the point, specimen trees bought by other people other than the people who did most of the creation deserve to be shown the public. A nice note saying the tree was initially styled by "x" would be enough I think.

 

[D'Angelo]

I agree with you on this point. Further to the point, specimen trees bought by other people other than the people who did most of the creation deserve to be shown the public. A nice note saying the tree was initially styled by "x" would be enough I think.

I've done Collaboration projects with other Engravers and always give credit where credit is due,never take credit for anothers work...it speaks volumes about yourself if you do!!

 

[markyscott]

I let my collection go about 5 years ago out of severe depression after a death in my immediate family....I swept shop for Guy Guidry for a number of years, (2004-2007ish), Overwintered the NC Arboretum collection between 2007-2008 after I had moved to the Hendersonville area to get away from home.....Collection died underneath the care of someone I thought I could trust while i was away.....I just got back into things around February when I was offered a job to restore a collection comprised, for the most part, of what used to be show quality trees...I have cared for a number of Banting's, aswell as a few Naka's....Guy Guidry, himself, called me the next Naka, when I was a child...I don't want to show what i have, because what I have is nowhere near what I AM used to showing.....Take it as you will, IDC....

When you were at Guy's, did you work with him on any of his fused trunk bald cypress? Last time I was there (about 4 months ago), he was mass producing them. He had them lined up behind his display area and they spilled out into the parking lot. He probably had at least 200 of them. He said he had pretty much given up his last idea of grafting foliage onto bald cypress knees in favor of producing fused trunk cypress trees. He told me that he thought he could produce better trees faster through fusion than through knee grafts. Both methods seemed like shortcuts to me, but what do I know - he was your teacher. I'm sure you must have a much more evolved opinion about Guy's efforts to produce bald cypress bonsai material from these methods than I.

Scott

 

[coh]

The plot thickens! I'd love to know more about those fused bald cypress trees...

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I think it's great to learn about smokes back ground. I had no idea of your résumé. That is really impressive. I'm sorry to learn it in a thread like this.

Also enjoyed the witty bantering.
Ryan- brush your shoulders off- you know your an OG. (Original Gangster)
I love this forum. Lol

One of my favorite trees is a jim smith creation- green island ficus grafted on to a live cypress knee. Love this tree!