Can someone clear this up?

[Redwood Ryan]

Hi everyone,



I seem to be getting a lot of conflicting information about starting an ROR. I've read many different opinions and was hoping you all could give a more precise answer. I've been told by some people that when starting an ROR that you should keep the roots pinned against the rock in some way. However, I've also been told that I don't need to pin the roots to the rock, and all I need to do is place the tree on the rock and bury roots and rock and all with soil. So, can anyone clear this up? Tree in question is a Ficus natalensis, by the way.

 

[Poink88]

As with most things, it depends on what you like.

Both works but I am with the camp that pins the roots as close as possible to the rock. I also do not believe in burying the tree & rock...I would rather apply mock to the rock, tie the roots, apply a thin layer of of sphagnum moss, wrap with saran wrap with open top so you can water from top. Let most of the roots reach the bottom where most of the soil is. Over time, just slowly unwrap by lowering (cutting) some of the saran wrap down exposing the roots and rock slowly.

This is MY preferred way.

 

[Dav4]

I've only created one ROR, with a trident maple. I tightly wrapped the bare roots to the rock with grafting tape, buried the rock in a pot of soil and forgot about it for a year or two, then slowly removed soil from the top down...worked out quite well. That's how I would proceed if I were to attempt one again, and for what it's worth, I've never heard anyone recommend to not bind the roots to the rock in some way...to be convincing, the roots really have to fully embrace the rock.

 

[rockm]

Binding the roots insures a tighter, faster bond between roots and rock. Simply plunking a tree over a rock leads to MANY useless wayward roots that can significantly affect the end product -- meaning a looser tree on its perch and big gaps...

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I've read too many recipes for muck, I'm not even sure I want to go that route anymore . Now, it was also suggested to me to use a younger tree with a smaller root system, that way the roots grow down and fill the crevices of the rock. Yet, if I go that route I won't really be able to tie down the roots, since there won't really be any to tie down.

Hmmmmm.

 

[rockm]

If you start with smaller trees, plant them in taller narrower containers to force the initial root system down, not out...Patience, a year or two in such a container filled coarser soil will probably produce a long lanky downward growing root system from which the initial roots for the ROR planting can be selected...

 

[Redwood Ryan]

If you start with smaller trees, plant them in taller narrower containers to force the initial root system down, not out...Patience, a year or two in such a container filled coarser soil will probably produce a long lanky downward growing root system from which the initial roots for the ROR planting can be selected...

Well I'm not so much concerned about growing out the root system in a narrow pot, as it was recommended to me by a friend that I actually start with a tree with a smaller root system. That way the roots grow down and fill the crevices, making it look much more "natural," not like the roots were just draped over the rock.

 

[rockm]

The longer roots in a short time in a taller container will be stringy and pliable and easily positioned on the stone...

 

[jk_lewis]

Masking tape or that blue painter's tape wrapped around and around the rock and the roots works well. By the time you repot, the tape is gone.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

A couple I've been working on are here. Wrapping tightly helps avoid unnatural looking gaps later. Seems to be easier to have an extra pair of hands helping. One of these may come out of the ground next year.

 

[edprocoat]

Redwood, I am of the camp securing the roots to the rock so they do not grow loosely or off of the rock. I do not use muck however. If your roots are long enough to embrace the rock and dangle below it I fine the best way is to drape the roots over the rock they way you want them to be arranged, then wrap them tight enough to hold them with twine, like jute twine or the sisal twine and tie it off. Then wrap the rock and roots with some plastic, black garbage bag works well, leave the top open and bury it enough to stabilize the rock and plant, then I water some fine sand into the plastic wrap from the top as I feel it keeps the moisture and fertilizer there longer and allows it to grow roots in some medium. You wind up with a minimal place for the roots to grow, mostly down around the rock and then down into your growing medium below the rock. With a ficus in 4-5 months you have a nice growth of roots, the twine will have rotted away and when you remove the plastic you can cut it off an inch at a time from the top to let the roots harden off or get used to the lack of protection around them. It has always worked for me.

ed

 

[Kevster]

I've done a few ror with ficus. Smaller roots make a more natural looking ror since most ficus since most ficus grow those huge tube roots. I have worked with a 12 inch ficus and cut all the big roots off and it did just fine pushing new small roots from the cuts.

I have also wrapped the roots to the rock tightly with plastic wrap and bury the whole thing up to the trunk.

But I am trying a new way I thought of. So far (I have peeked) it looks like it is the way I will do them from now on.

What I do is I get a pot big enough to fit the rock tree and soil. I then put a coarse medium on the bottom of the pot about 2 inches deep. Then put the tree on a rock and wrap it with cling wrap but I don't wrap it tight. Instead I leave it loose. I place the wrapped rock into the pot and add a little more coarse medium just high enough to cover the bottom of the wrap. I then get sand (I use the leftovers from my sifting of dry stall) and pack this in tight one inch at a time adding some water to get it to really stick and pack. I do this till it's filled to almost the trunk then give the whole thing a good soaking. I leave enough room to be able to water inside the wrap though it is hardly ever need since the wapping keeps things pretty moist on its own. What this does (ESPECIALLY if you have a rock with a lot of nooks and crannies) is it packs the plastic wrap tight to the rock everywhere and evenly forcing the roots to cling to the rock where as when you wrap the plastic tight it leaves gaps which sometimes can be fairly big.
Though I do not have a finished product yet from the precession I saw at the time when I looked the roots were really hugging the pockets of a piece of lace rock I had.

Just though I'd share another way.
P.S.!!!! A second set of hands doing any ror is always helpful!! I can't tell you how many times I felt like throwing the rock when I am fumbling around with them lol. I do many with 1-2 year old cuttings I have and give them to fundraiser yard sales people have around me for kids sports. They sell like hot cakes!

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Great help.

I've decided that I'm just going to let the roots grow out for another month or so. I went up to Lowes and picked up this two foot long PVC tube and will plant the tree in it and allow the roots to grow straight down. Given the ravenous root system of natalensis it shouldn't take long at all to fill the tube with roots.

I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Potted the tree into the tube tonight. In all honesty, given the vigor of natalensis, I should expect roots to be poking through the bottom in a month or less.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

And here is the stump I'm going to use for this project:

 

[Poink88]

Ryan,

IMHO this stump is not a good choice. You can use rock but if you want wood...a stump is a poor choice. Strangler figs usually attaches itself to a full tree for support to reach the canopy, not a stump...the dead wood may rot away after and that is fine too but the fig already assumed the shape and space of the original tree.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Ryan,

IMHO this stump is not a good choice. You can use rock but if you want wood...a stump is a poor choice. Strangler figs usually attaches itself to a full tree for support to reach the canopy, not a stump...the dead wood may rot away after and that is fine too but the fig already assumed the shape and space of the original tree.

Eh that's kinda what I figured, that it would rot away. And I am more than fine with that. I've got some friends on an Australian forum who suggested wood would be a good idea, as over there Ficus on logs/stumps aren't too uncommon.

And when and if it does rot away, years down the road, I'll end up having a pretty neat exposed root style tree.

 

[tatorger]

I went to central america and saw strangler figs of some kind that killed the host tree and the dead tree rotted away leaving the fig hollow in the middle. I cant seem to find my pictures but here is one I borrowed from a google search
http://mari-3.deviantart.com/art/Inside-the-Strangler-Fig-144165391

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I went to central america and saw strangler figs of some kind that killed the host tree and the dead tree rotted away leaving the fig hollow in the middle. I cant seem to find my pictures but here is one I borrowed from a google search
http://mari-3.deviantart.com/art/Inside-the-Strangler-Fig-144165391

Great picture, thanks. If something like that were to happen to this later down the road I'd be more than fine with it.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Here's what Jerry did with some Ficus and a dead stump:

http://www.bonsaihunk.us/EpiphyticCreate.html