Chinese juniper thickening / ground or large pot (basket)

[Sootys trees]

Guys, I’m just looking for some opinions and advice on the matter of whether it’s best to grow/develop my Chinese juniper in a large pot or the ground ?

See images for said tree, I repotted last summer and the tree has responded well, putting out a lot of new roots into the new media of 70-80% perlite and 20-30% pine bark chips ( small grade bark )



The goal is to increase the girth of the trunk, whilst maintaining some small branches to work with when I dig it up.

The main concern with putting it in the ground would be that when I later come to collect it, i’d damage the root system and risk the trees health or death…

Whereas growing in a large pot will be slower to develop.

I’m willing to give this a good 5-10 years of thickening.

I understand pruning and root work are essential for keeping the tree small, but at the same time such work slows down any thickening of the trunk etc, so I’ll most likely create some sacrificial branch’s I can layer later down the road…

What are your guys thoughts on ground or pot growing for this tree ?

Thanks

 

[Sootys trees]

Here’s another pic, I’ve managed to root dozens of cutting from this tree already, great for shohins, junipers really are the easiest thing to propagate

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If you want to increase the girth of the trunk, increase foliar mass. If you want to increase foliar mass, let the roots run.

Planting in the ground is generally the fastest route because it allows the roots the fastest growth - not only giving the roots room to grow, but keeping the roots insulated. You would probably get similar results for the first few years if you had a greenhouse and placed a tree in a large grow box. But the moment you put a tree in a pot you are slowing the growth down substantially... which is usually what you want.

If you want to maintain fine inner branching, you should maintain that foliage as "refined" by pruning, wiring, and otherwise treating that foliage like it was the final design. Then let ONE sacrifice branch run uninhibited for a couple of years, making sure to never prune the tip, but removing lower foliage if it is shading out your refined areas. Then after two years, prune off the branch, leaving a jin if appropriate. Repeat the sacrifice growing method with different branches and different locations until you get the girth you want. Note that in the case of junipers you might let sacrifice growth run for more than two years if you plan on leaving a deadwood feature. You typically don't want sacrifice growth to run more than two years on deciduous trees because it leaves too large of a scar.

 

[Shibui]

I have done quite a few of both - ground and pot.
Shimpaku generally take a few years to 'realise they are free' and start growing substantially. After that trunk increase is rapid.
Shimpaku in pots here often outdo ground grown counterparts for the first 2-4 years but after that the ground grown trees overtake the pot grown ones.
Sacrifice branches work really well to thicken shimpaku trunks in pots. Sacrifice branches also allow me to target thickening in designated areas.
Pot grown trees might be slower but usually superior in quality - controlled trunk shape, taper, roots and nebari, etc, etc. Shimpaku have natural tendency to grow long, straight sections each year. Without regular intervention, trunks are stiff, uninteresting and hard to style well.

Transplant from ground back to pot is not as difficult as some seem to imagine. I seem to be able to reduce roots substantially to go back into a pot and still get good survival rates provided care is adequate for the growing season after transplant.

 

[Nickuk74]

I'm trying this as I don't have access to growing beds.

 

[leatherback]

The main concern with putting it in the ground would be that when I later come to collect it, i’d damage the root system and risk the trees health or death…

maybe this puts your mind at ease on that component. I think maybe 1 did not make it, but only because the digging was done not carefully. All others of these without fail took a year or so and then started pushing happily again.

 

[Joelshack2362]

View attachment 625968

Here’s another pic, I’ve managed to root dozens of cutting from this tree already, great for shohins, junipers really are the easiest thing to propagate

What time of year is the best time to do cuttings?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

What time of year is the best time to do cuttings?

Any month you can spell without a J.

 

[leatherback]

What time of year is the best time to do cuttings?

I take them yearround.
They normally root late winter, early spring.

 

[Joelshack2362]

I take them yearround.
They normally root late winter, early spring.

Thanks for the response love your YouTube channel. Is there a certain thickness of branch that is considered to large to propagate?

 

[leatherback]

s there a certain thickness of branch that is considered to large to propagate?

I find match thickness optimal. I happen to experiment this winter with thicker cuttings. Not seriously tried thick ones tbh.

 

[Shibui]

Juniper cuttings up to pencil size can root but older, thicker cuttings generally take longer to root and longer to establish and start growing so not always worth the effort. Strike rate for younger wood is also higher - around 80% for young wood V 20%-40% for cuttings from older wood.

I think slightly thicker than matchstick would be my preference. Somewhere between matchstick and pencil thick but growth stage/age of the shoot is probably more important than actual thickness. I get best results with cuttings where bas bark has recently turned from green to brown.

 

[Sootys trees]

In relation to ground growing or large container growing for thickening and trunk development;

I’ve decided to take a few steps back in trunk development by thinning out unneeded growth and large branches, in order stop problems arising in the future, ie thick branching taking over and inverse taper…

I understand its counter productive to cut foliage back when thickening is the goal, but I’m willing to wait longer for trunk development and start the tree off in a better shape.

I don’t want to lose all the interior growth by letting it get shaded and have a leggy tree, although I do believe most trees are workable regardless, I want this one to be compact and thick, medium size with twisted knarly branching and Jin and Shari.

That said I haven’t removed all the strong growing tips / whips but probably will later on once others emerge in more suitable place for a sacrifice branch…

I’m learning and enjoying a lot of videos from bonsaify on YouTube, he makes a lot of shohin but also larger specimen type trees, he a different climate and zone, but same principles can be applied in my zone with careful thinking

Thanks again for advice guys

 

[Sootys trees]

 

[Sootys trees]

 

[Sootys trees]

I’ve applied wire to a new leader to bring the top more central and wired all the smaller branches I want to keep, twisting and contorting…

Ive left all the whorls of two or three branches for now, to keep the tree nice and strong for when it goes in
The ground in spring…

Im going with removing anything I don’t want when the tree has started producing strong growth in the areas I do want to keep… these can be layered or taken as cuttings.

The base of the trunk needs lots more thickening and the angle of the trunk changing to take the first initial portion of trunk away from being vertical.

Going forward, maintain small branch’s and grow a leaded for thickening,

Any thoughts from people with experience growing junipers in the ground and setting them up first, much appreciated

 

[Shibui]

I understand its counter productive to cut foliage back when thickening is the goal, but I’m willing to wait longer for trunk development and start the tree off in a better shape.

Congratulations on reaching this stage of your bonsai life. So many people see growth as the main aim rather than future quality, or maybe don't fully understand the consequences. The best bonsai have almost all been developed more slowly.