Chunky field maple raw material - send all the help!!!

Clorgan

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I'd wait til Spring just at bud swell because you'll be doing root work just before you plant it out. It'll give you time to research how to board a tree and acquire something flat, resilient to rotting and drillable. 🌲😁

Yeah doesn't look good - maybe add a reciprocating saw or a Silky hand saw if you are a big strong woman.

So plan of action is cover them back up and deal with the mess at spring? I can definitely do that
 

BobbyLane

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I'd wait til Spring just at bud swell because you'll be doing root work just before you plant it out. It'll give you time to research how to board a tree and acquire something flat, resilient to rotting and drillable. 🌲😁

Yeah doesn't look good - maybe add a reciprocating saw or a Silky hand saw if you are a big strong woman.

agreed, requires a lot of teasing out.
 

sorce

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This is a case where it is easier to just leave all the pot roots to strengthen your layer.

I'd pop the pot off and throw it in the ground, or leave the pot and just get on with the air layer.

If you can find some history on where this came from, I'd bet you 3 buds or 1 peroni it's a place with about yah of thick clay, or other substance that doesn't allow rooting, after which is a substance more condusive to root growth.

Because this was certainly dug from that field, and placed in this pot.

Honestly at that, cuz that not a bad price, and if it's true these can put growth on quick, I would definitely go back there for more trees.

But .....

Thinking even for a second, that a tree so thick, jammed into a bucket so small, is ever, ever ever ever, going to have something worth digging to find....
Well....let's drink them beers and forget that bullshit!

Cheers!

Sorce
 

Clorgan

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This is a case where it is easier to just leave all the pot roots to strengthen your layer.

I'd pop the pot off and throw it in the ground, or leave the pot and just get on with the air layer.

If you can find some history on where this came from, I'd bet you 3 buds or 1 peroni it's a place with about yah of thick clay, or other substance that doesn't allow rooting, after which is a substance more condusive to root growth.

Because this was certainly dug from that field, and placed in this pot.

Honestly at that, cuz that not a bad price, and if it's true these can put growth on quick, I would definitely go back there for more trees.

But .....

Thinking even for a second, that a tree so thick, jammed into a bucket so small, is ever, ever ever ever, going to have something worth digging to find....
Well....let's drink them beers and forget that bullshit!

Cheers!

Sorce

It was from all things bonsai, reputable site as far as I know.

Well I can certainly decipher which beer you prefer from your comment! I do love a bud though...

Will likely plant in the ground. Is this a big enough space? Approx 60cm wide... My fella has allocated me a certain amount of space for plants so I'm limited 😂
 

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Clorgan

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its a woodland tree, it will grow in anything. you could buy a bag of John innes and shovel some into the planting hole. i use old bonsai soil in the planting holes.
ive planted trees in the ground at this time of year by watering them in for a few weeks.

Missed this comment - sorry there's been a lot of info (which is great!) but I've had a busy day and my adhd brain is tired 😂

Please humour my repetitive questions... I need things spelling out 😂 Would you recommend planting in the ground now or next spring?

I posted a photo above of proposed planting area, unsure whether it's too small?
 

Woocash

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They don’t need loads of space, they’ll grow in any old crack in any old pile o’ dump. Still, tell yer fella he’s being downright greedy and his half of the garden is not being put to any good use anyway! Have foot, will use it. 😁

Ultimately, it’s your choice, but putting it in the ground without attending to roots won’t achieve much but creating a tapered tree with crappy roots. Therefore, wait til spring if that’s your plan and work out the roots, as has been said.

I might try a different tact though. I am purely spit balling so anybody who’s tried something similar and failed or think its bunkum please throw me a proverbial bitch slap.

I would probably get a larger pot and slip pot it without disturbing the roots at the same time as performing a ground layer, using one of sorce’s radial disc type efforts to keep the new, good roots separate from the old poopy roots. Then, when you have separated the layer, mount It on a tile or similar and begin the tapering process in the ground.

You do want to jump in the deep end straight away right? 😅
 

BobbyLane

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Missed this comment - sorry there's been a lot of info (which is great!) but I've had a busy day and my adhd brain is tired 😂

Please humour my repetitive questions... I need things spelling out 😂 Would you recommend planting in the ground now or next spring?

I posted a photo above of proposed planting area, unsure whether it's too small?
if you follow Pauls advice to tease out the roots and board it, then yeh wait til spring. the other option is to slice like a cake and stick it in the ground now.
i did something similar with this hornbeam, it went into a pot then into the ground without any teasing, because it already has a great base in these scenarios the tree just picks up where it left off
Screenshot_20200716-175803_Gallery.jpg
 

Clorgan

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They don’t need loads of space, they’ll grow in any old crack in any old pile o’ dump. Still, tell yer fella he’s being downright greedy and his half of the garden is not being put to any good use anyway! Have foot, will use it. 😁

Ultimately, it’s your choice, but putting it in the ground without attending to roots won’t achieve much but creating a tapered tree with crappy roots. Therefore, wait til spring if that’s your plan and work out the roots, as has been said.

I might try a different tact though. I am purely spit balling so anybody who’s tried something similar and failed or think its bunkum please throw me a proverbial bitch slap.

I would probably get a larger pot and slip pot it without disturbing the roots at the same time as performing a ground layer, using one of sorce’s radial disc type efforts to keep the new, good roots separate from the old poopy roots. Then, when you have separated the layer, mount It on a tile or similar and begin the tapering process in the ground.

You do want to jump in the deep end straight away right? 😅

Just re-read this properly, this seems like a pretty good idea!
 

YamadoriFL

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Crapes grow very fast this time of year here in Pinellas county. Seem to back bud from the base of the trunk all the way up. Nice starting material have fun!
 

Clorgan

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So! I've done some research, now properly understand the importance of sorting the roots out! So that will of course be the first step next spring - spread the roots radially and evenly, make level, attach to board, add some good soil to the ground and plant.


These are some things I've read about boarding/roots/planting - wanted to check a few things and make sure I've not misunderstood anything or missed anything important!
  • I've seen people use ceramic tiles or wood to board, is it generally that tiles are used in the ground and wood only in pots as it rots? I know you screw the wood to the tree to secure it (preferably with a screw that won't rust?) I'm wondering how you would you secure the tree to a ceramic tile?
  • Should you tie the trunk to a stake or two until the roots reestablish?
  • I know you need to use something hard to board, rather than plastic sheets to stop water pooling and root rot.
  • The planting hole needs to be slightly bigger than the tile so the roots can grow horizontally and then down from it
  • Aware you can go hard on the roots so will do this and hopefully over time develop a good nebari

Seen so many great examples of amazing trunk development when in the ground, so definitely going with @Paulpash on that one! Fingers crossed it'll help add some trunk movement. Would a trunk chop/air layer be necessary to create taper, or would that occur without? Sorry I'm still learning 😂

About air layering/chop - if anything I will air layer. I don't come across decent sized material so wouldn't want to waste any! Unsure whether I'll go for this or leave as a larger tree yet - will make that decision when the time comes! I do like the cutting a hollow idea from @Shibui - will be looking into that next to see if I think it is within my capabilities!


For this year - letting it grow! It's got tons of growth though, is it advisable to prune lightly when at this stage, or to leave it completely? I can see it growing tons over the coming months. There's also multiple shoots coming from various points - I'm guessing I don't need to worry about this yet and just leave them be?

Thanks as always!
 

Paulpash

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So! I've done some research, now properly understand the importance of sorting the roots out! So that will of course be the first step next spring - spread the roots radially and evenly, make level, attach to board, add some good soil to the ground and plant.


These are some things I've read about boarding/roots/planting - wanted to check a few things and make sure I've not misunderstood anything or missed anything important!
  • I've seen people use ceramic tiles or wood to board, is it generally that tiles are used in the ground and wood only in pots as it rots? Wood will rot in any media that is constantly moist. Marine ply is often used for its resistance to rotting. I know you screw the wood to the tree to secure it (preferably with a screw that won't rust? I used a stainless steel screw. You've probably got one or two in your garage knocking around - leave it out for a few weeks to see if it rusts but I'm not sure if trees react negatively to rust) I'm wondering how you would you secure the tree to a ceramic tile? I think I used an old plastic tray initially. You could use a tile - just secure it with jute or something else that will rot. To be honest, FM roots would push up even if screwed to a board.
  • Should you tie the trunk to a stake or two until the roots reestablish? Yes, that's a good idea.
  • I know you need to use something hard to board, rather than plastic sheets to stop water pooling and root rot.
  • The planting hole needs to be slightly bigger than the tile so the roots can grow horizontally and then down from it
  • Aware you can go hard on the roots so will do this and hopefully over time develop a good nebari

Seen so many great examples of amazing trunk development when in the ground, so definitely going with @Paulpash on that one! Fingers crossed it'll help add some trunk movement. Would a trunk chop/air layer be necessary to create taper, or would that occur without? Sorry I'm still learning 😂 Yes, you will have to chop (remember to tilt the trunk before you board and plant it), otherwise it'll just stay a straight cylinder. Chop to a shoot growing in the opposite direction to the planting orientation, eg lean to left = chop to a right moving shoot for the next trunk section.

About air layering/chop - if anything I will air layer. I don't come across decent sized material so wouldn't want to waste any! Unsure whether I'll go for this or leave as a larger tree yet - will make that decision when the time comes! I do like the cutting a hollow idea from @Shibui - will be looking into that next to see if I think it is within my capabilities!


For this year - letting it grow! It's got tons of growth though, is it advisable to prune lightly when at this stage, or to leave it completely? No point in pruning - you're going to need max growth. Once you get it out of the pot, establish which side will be the front I can see it growing tons over the coming months. There's also multiple shoots coming from various points - I'm guessing I don't need to worry about this yet and just leave them be?

Thanks as always!
 
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