Coir

[Nigel Black]

I'm wondering if anyone here has used coir (shredded outer hull of coconuts) it works exceptionally well for cacti, but there seems to be some debate amongst thorned xerophyte aficionado set about its 'appriopriateness'.

So at risk of setting of yet another soil debate, has anyone here used coir? If so, how'd you like it?
Why or why not? Etc, etc.

Nigel

 

[Rick Moquin]

Bonsai and coir do not mix.

 

[Nigel Black]

Could you please explain your assertion? It would be much more helpful and valuable if you can explain why.

Thanks,

Nigel

 

[Rick Moquin]

It retains too much moisture and turns to mush = root rot if allowed to go unchecked.

 

[bonsaichile]

I'm wondering if anyone here has used coir (shredded outer hull of coconuts) it works exceptionally well for cacti, but there seems to be some debate amongst thorned xerophyte aficionado set about its 'appriopriateness'.

So at risk of setting of yet another soil debate, has anyone here used coir? If so, how'd you like it?
Why or why not? Etc, etc.

Nigel

I only use inorganic substrate to better control fertilization

 

[rockm]

Seems they find it Hundreds of Years old on Oak Island.....

There is a difference between exposure to oxygen throughput in bonsai soil (not to mention the constant temperature fluctuations in winter freeze/thaw cycles in bonsai soil stored over a hard winter) and the anaerobic conditions that develop in bodies of water and earth. Without exposure to oxygen, things like wood, fibers, etc. tend not to rot and remain intact. Oxygen introduction (which good bonsai encourages) fuels bacteria that rot materials.

If you want to use it, great, go ahead. If you're somewhere that doesn't have hard winters, you'll probably be fine. But first hand experience in those conditions has told me it's not a great thing to use in temperate zones that get freezes.

 

[ShadyStump]

If someone says something doesn't work, ask how and where they used it.

I use coco coir in most of my pots, and root root hasn't been an issue. Our winters can get cold, but aren't horribly wet.
Don't use it straight, of course, but mixed with other inorganic components it's good for retaining nutrients after fertilizing, and moisture in dry climates. Coir is almost neutral pH, and can last years in a pot without compacting.
It's also fairly light and airy, so still breathes well while binding your inorganic components so they shift less under water pressure.
Coco coir is a reasonable option for those who can't water twice a day.

 

[ZombieNick]

I'm wondering if anyone here has used coir (shredded outer hull of coconuts) it works exceptionally well for cacti, but there seems to be some debate amongst thorned xerophyte aficionado set about its 'appriopriateness'.

So at risk of setting of yet another soil debate, has anyone here used coir? If so, how'd you like it?
Why or why not? Etc, etc.

Nigel

I have used coco coir extensively in hydro systems, but not for bonsai. I have tried it in a soil mix for houseplants, and I wasn't a fan. The reason for me, is the same as for peat moss - it maintains too much water when wet, and can become hydrophobic if let to completely dry (my personal experience, you will probably read differently online). When used as a hydroponic medium for annuals, I was able to achieve almost double the growth rate vs organic soil. @cmeg1 has a thread where he is experimenting with hydroponic growing for bonsai that is pretty interesting, but he uses stone wool.

 

[GGB]

I sprouted seeds in it one spring and the root growth was put of control, very good experience. But the next spring I moved the one year old trees into potting mix. I was afraid the air spaces were beginning to collapse. This was before I got into bonsai

 

[dbonsaiw]

I've only ever used coir in my son's frog tank and definitely don't want to start a soil war, but I find myself adding a little more organics in my grow boxes lately. Although I have said bad things about these components in the past, I have used potting soil and powdered sphagnum moss. Of course, these are in much smaller quantities than the inorganics and the soil is still quite open and well draining. But I think the Acer Rubrums, BCs, Dawn Redwoods and others appreciate the extra moisture. Even with the extra moisture and the relatively moderate temps, the Rubrum leaves start to droop in less than 2 days.

 

[Baku1875]

a tiny bit of coco coir to fluff up the gaps can make certain trees easier to care for and help hold everything together.

Eric Shrader from Boinsaify uses coarse perlite and coco peat/coco coir for development stage and pre bonsai, with a much higher % of coarse perlite in the mix and coco coir to help fill the gaps a bit and lift CEC, and make the soil 'grip' younger trunks better.

I mix it together with the majority inorganics in a bucket with water, then scoop it out with a fine mesh colander, press it a bit and put it out to dry in the sun before potting so it expands into the gaps and makes the mix more homogeneous. So far, good results from using it in air layer bags, post-air layer up-potting, rooting large cuttings, getting rooted cuttings into training pots, filling out nursery cans etc. A cheap brick goes a long way as well and is easier to store than bags of organic potting soil. I would never use a majority coir mix though.

It's good for something really thirsty like a ficus as well to help form a mossed core root ball that holds itself together when placed on top of a shallow pot filled with 100% bonsai mix to make a hill. I'm chopping this root ball+potbound shallowball in half this summer and repotting into same pot so it sits lower though. Without the coir, I would probably have to water this 3-4 times a day in the summer....

 

[MRdoozlSnoozl__]

I will say this just on the coir note topic.. It needs to be prepared properly as in sifted of all dust and also rinsed to further remove the ‘coco peat’ portion of it

If you want to be more specific after placing it into a fine mesh strainer and shaking shaking flipping shaking , and rinsing it throughly or into a nut milk bag / cheesecloth bag and rinsing it free of dust It can be buffered also


I go further and use a strainer that sifts everything under 2mm OUT . Then I rinse it free of dust in a fine meshed strainer.
Pre-Buffered coco coir

Some of the bricks one purchases for budget are like half dust

Most the bags of quality coir will have dust still but barely 10-15%
I keep the amount sifted off to use with seedlings and such amended some with whatever seems appropriate
And yes rinse it outside

Now I’m not saying greenlight to use it for makeshift bonsai . But if it’s prepared properly and used up to like 30% max I don’t think there would be any problem whatsoever

The little I do know I would feel safe using expanded shale 20-25% coir 25% pine bark 20% and pumice remainder

The pine bark holds about half water half air coir holds 3/4 water remainder air Pumice holds about 20% water


ive transitioned PLANTS from pure pumice to adding in 20% bark then few months later 20% coir

And the roots didn’t suffer one bit I think they actually appreciated the additon of organic substrate

Laterite stone and foundry slag lavarock javarock and de are also used in bonsai ofc

And I’ve seen plenty that have soil used so idk
As another poster said in this thread coco won’t compress and only the peat dust contributes to root rot
As does root system being held over 72F


so in that sense even I’m sure a pot with nothing but rock will get much more hot

 

[TrevorLarsen]

After watching this video I was sold on coir but time will tell if it works for me.

 

[vp999]

People in my country of Vietnam use shredded coir as part of the soil mix, granted its very hot and humid there all year round.