Collecting established wisteria

serpentsgarden

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In the position to help a few people of PDX out wiht a wisteria issue. Today i saw three very nice piece to start work with. Am i to believe that wisteria can handle sever reductions. Should i collect more that what i need or will the trunk back bud on old wood if bare?? I do not know about wisteria other than it is a beautiful plant and i love the flowers and smell. Childhood thing i am sure but i liek it a lot. One is form a 50 plus year established wisteria that destroyed a gazeebo about a seven inchish trunk i am guessing the other tow are less than ten years and are more work than the peopel want. All are vigours and healthy and flower three seperate patterns a purple a white and white with a lavender edging. One looks a bit differnt i thinking it is chinese variety. Can the plants handle a sever trunk chop and repotting as new working material on the bench to veg out new branches and recover??? If it can be collected in such a way will i have a lot of runners force up. what shoud i expect beside a huge amount of roots to cut back. I am avid and really need some good guidance here as this part of bonsai i am very ignorant of. I understand my maples much more than i do this plant by far.
THanks for the help so much
 

jk_lewis

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Wisteria won't care how much trunk you chop above ground -- especially in the winter when the leaves are gone.

Roots can be another matter. Wisteria tend to send out long (20 feet or more) runner roots. These pop up to the surface every so often and sprout what looks to be another plant. It's not. Often, if you dig a wisteria like you would dig any other plant, you will get a stump with three or four cut-off fat roots radiating off the bottom. This may not be sufficient to support the stump (although ALL of the cut off root remainders left behind i the ground will sprout new tops).

It is safest to follow these long fat roots off to the side and cut them off a few feet from the stump, then coil them up in a pot when you plant it -- hoping that finer roots will sprout closer to the base of the stump and you can eventually get rid of the coiled-up fat roots.

And at other times, they don't seem to care and your chopped transplant does great.

It can be a gamble.
 

rockm

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"It can be a gamble."


I'd wholeheatedly agree. I've collected wisteria simply by sawing off all the roots six inches out from the trunk and plunked them into deepish growing containers. Some have thrived, while others slowly died back on the trunk, leaving big punky spaces.

Generally, if the trunk is great, be conservative in the technique you use to get it out.
 

serpentsgarden

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more about the wisteria

So in short i should look at collecting as much root mass as possible to save the plant a larger vegetative container and work on root reduction over time to stabilize my trunk chops?? Correct. Will i need a trunk that has back bud occuring or will bare wood produce new shoots from the trunk?? I notice one might be a bit bare on the nervous side for this back budding. Does it occur easy?? Or will i need ot perhaps do a less drascticc reduction when collecting the new material. All my trunks measure none are less than six inches!!! i say wow to this so i am really wanting to put the right efforts forward here. So the questions i have specifically is these
Can i produce new shoot form bare wood come this spring.
Will i need more oorts than needed over all to help stabilize my trunks this next few years of vegetatvie cycle.
Should i fertilize to help produce stronger growth to prepare the plant for bonsai?
a few have racemes on the trunk as it is the buds are very easy to note the difference i have observed the difference in size shape and texture of these. Some are alreayd looking on the swelling side or just prepping for the spring i do not know but some seem very pronounced already.. Mild climate i suppose.
Will adding nitrogen fertilizer help or hinder progress or will it stiffle the flower out for good
I hear this will prevent flower production as wisteria will grow before it flowers if it can...
Thanks for the help guys i am sorry i ahve so many questions here but you are my teachers now...
Serpent's Garden Bonsai
 

rockm

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First of all, relax.:D

Six inches is a pretty good size for a wisteria trunk.

Yes. They backbud on bare wood without much problem.

Get a few thicker roots (do as JKL suggested--get a few longer fat roots with smaller feeder roots at the end, wind them up into the pot) no need to get a huge root mass.

I wouldn't worry about flowering for some time, like five years down the line. You should be focused on the initial collection--which is all about getting a stump that will live.

Plant the stump in soil that has about 40-50 percent organics. Don't worry about fertilization this year. Overfertlization can actually inhibit new root growth to some extent.

If I were you, I would select the WORST trunk, dig it up and see what you can do with it. I wouldn't dig the really nice trunks until I learned how to successfully collect and care for the lesser one. No sense in wasting nice trunks...
 

jk_lewis

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I wouldn't worry about flowering for some time, like five years down the line. You should be focused on the initial collection--which is all about getting a stump that will live.
In fact, I highly recommend that you remove all flower buds, if they appear, as soon as they are evident! Florwer buds are very distinctive. They are round, kinda "fuzzy" and grayish. Leaf buds are pointed and more slick looking.
 
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pjkatich

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serpentsgarden,

The only other information that I could offer is that you need to seal any large cuts as soon as possible after collecting. If you don't, the pith of the vine will begin to rot. If left unchecked, the rot could eventually kill the vine.

I would recommend using the type of the sealer that comes in a tube like the ones shown in the photo below. I have used both types successfully on collected wisteria vines.

I have also included a couple of photos showing the difference between flower buds and vegetative buds on a wisteria.

Good luck!

Paul
 

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serpentsgarden

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Thanks for the advice

Thanks for the photos that is exactly what i had thought the plant was doing. I have that paste already for my maples already. So i will make sure to take care in wound seals. I had a chance to go and study a better view of the plant today. I dont have a chance to really wait on the trunks as they are either I get to remove them and keep some material or a landscaper will get paid for it and i lose out. So I figured early spring would be a good time for removal of the trunks one I have to collect one in two weeks so I figure some recovery time in a green house would be best there. Along with some rooting aid in the soil as well to boost root recover a bit. The climate is mild i doubt we see another freeze at all here. Its barely above 40 most nights and 50 or better during the days here. I will post some pics of my endeavor so if i did something right or wrong a few of you more experience can possible send some feedback. I appreciate it much.
 
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