Collecting Trees in South Florida

[pbethune]

I have 10 empty anderson flats looking at me. I have thought about trespassing several times but my conscience always gets the best of me... I'm talking about anywhere south of Tampa. Mostly bald cypress, buttonwood, american elm.

Have you collected in south Florida? I've called several places about collection permits and they seem to not exist in this state (although I see that this is possible in some parks out west).

I spoke with D. Robinson about it a couple years ago while in Seattle, but I'm wondering if there's a select few here in the state that have. I'm looking to pick your brain a bit, if possible.

 

[pbethune]

Above, is the collected free trees from a craigslist free tree ad. That is where I collect most of my trees. It is amazing what you can get for free. Digging required (smile).

 

[Cjlopez4]

Active clubs in Tampa ?

 

[miker]

You aren't likely to find wild American elm in South Fl (Tampa area yes, Ft Myers not so much) as the natural range extends deep into Central Fl to well south of Orlando, but not as far as South Fl, except a small area north of Lake Okeechobee, as depicted on the map of the species' native range.

I used to find a lot of bald cypress seedlings and saplings growing around the shores of area lakes when I lived in the Orlando area, but most of this is either private of protected land too.

You might try working with live oak (Quercus virginiana). No shortage of these, though collecting anything much more than seedlings might be a chore best or impossible at worst due to the tap root.

If I moved back, I would definitely collect some sand pine (Pinus clausa) and look for black gum (Nyssa sylvatica). Lovely fall color on this last one. Note, these last two might not found much in South Fl either, though I bet Pinus clausa would likely do fine there.

Keep an eye out for volunteer ficus and schefflera down there☺

 

[miker]

For nice, craggy, rugged buttonwood with nice deadwood features, I would also just look for a nice legally collected one to buy.

 

[SU2]

Along the same lines, in S. Florida, you should get applause if you go out to collect Brazillian pepper or Mellelucca (Punk tree), and to a lesser extent, Australian pine (Casuarina). All are on Florida's Invasive Plant List. http://www.fleppc.org/list/list.htm

Do you happen to know if brazillian pepper trees *can* be collected in standard 'yamadori' style, ie trunk-chopped and dug-up in 1 go? Because those suckers grow very quickly, would love to collect some if they take to it!

Am in same position as OP, in FL and trying to find native trees to collect- have bougies/crape/ilex/privet/etc but really want true natives not just 'yardadori', and bald cypress is all I've found....Buttonwood looks awesome, but I cannot discern Buttonwood from Rhizophora (true 'Mangrove' trees), if anyone's got tips I'd love to hear them, I think buttonwoods may be just what I'm looking for ie a common, native plant that I can collect mature specimen in the aggressive 'trunk-chop&collect' manner ('1-stepping'), but BC's are the only native that seems to reliably handle that :/ Am close to just trying, blindly, to collect some common ones and see if they work (royal poincinas, melia azedarach's/'chinaberry'), would just be able to do sooo much if I knew what native species took well to yamadori collection (ie stuff as forgiving as bougies, crapes, privet etc)

You aren't likely to find wild American elm in South Fl (Tampa area yes, Ft Myers not so much) as the natural range extends deep into Central Fl to well south of Orlando, but not as far as South Fl, except a small area north of Lake Okeechobee, as depicted on the map of the species' native range.

I used to find a lot of bald cypress seedlings and saplings growing around the shores of area lakes when I lived in the Orlando area, but most of this is either private of protected land too.

You might try working with live oak (Quercus virginiana). No shortage of these, though collecting anything much more than seedlings might be a chore best or impossible at worst due to the tap root.

If I moved back, I would definitely collect some sand pine (Pinus clausa) and look for black gum (Nyssa sylvatica). Lovely fall color on this last one. Note, these last two might not found much in South Fl either, though I bet Pinus clausa would likely do fine there.

Keep an eye out for volunteer ficus and schefflera down there☺

Whoa I'd given-up on finding American Elm in the Tampa area, very glad to read that You wouldn't happen to have any recommendations on *where* to look, like habitats/preferences that I'd have higher chances of finding one? Like, with Black Olive (bucida spinosa), it looks awesome and I'd love to get one, but have never found one....Was only lucky enough to find the BC's because I at least knew to look on pond-edges!

Re quercus virginiana, I've tried sooo many times w/o luck, I did finally get a q.laurifolia ('laurel oak') to survive a collection but I probably tried 20+ between Live and Laurel before getting that....would really love to find something I can at least have fair 50/50 odds with lol! How well do sand pine and black gum take to collecting, is there anything special to keep in-mind or can they be lifted like I'd do with a privet or bougainvillea?

 

[miker]

Do you happen to know if brazillian pepper trees *can* be collected in standard 'yamadori' style, ie trunk-chopped and dug-up in 1 go? Because those suckers grow very quickly, would love to collect some if they take to it!

Am in same position as OP, in FL and trying to find native trees to collect- have bougies/crape/ilex/privet/etc but really want true natives not just 'yardadori', and bald cypress is all I've found....Buttonwood looks awesome, but I cannot discern Buttonwood from Rhizophora (true 'Mangrove' trees), if anyone's got tips I'd love to hear them, I think buttonwoods may be just what I'm looking for ie a common, native plant that I can collect mature specimen in the aggressive 'trunk-chop&collect' manner ('1-stepping'), but BC's are the only native that seems to reliably handle that :/ Am close to just trying, blindly, to collect some common ones and see if they work (royal poincinas, melia azedarach's/'chinaberry'), would just be able to do sooo much if I knew what native species took well to yamadori collection (ie stuff as forgiving as bougies, crapes, privet etc)





Whoa I'd given-up on finding American Elm in the Tampa area, very glad to read that You wouldn't happen to have any recommendations on *where* to look, like habitats/preferences that I'd have higher chances of finding one? Like, with Black Olive (bucida spinosa), it looks awesome and I'd love to get one, but have never found one....Was only lucky enough to find the BC's because I at least knew to look on pond-edges!

Re quercus virginiana, I've tried sooo many times w/o luck, I did finally get a q.laurifolia ('laurel oak') to survive a collection but I probably tried 20+ between Live and Laurel before getting that....would really love to find something I can at least have fair 50/50 odds with lol! How well do sand pine and black gum take to collecting, is there anything special to keep in-mind or can they be lifted like I'd do with a privet or bougainvillea?

Based on the range maps (which I am just making general location assumptions based on, not specific like pinpointing a certain State Park), I would say any hardwood hammock in the inland Tampa Bay area could likely be home to American elm. This page, however, will give you more specific locale data for Ulmus americana based on the locations of collected herbarium specimens listed. http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=3530 Now it would just be a matter of getting permission to collect in one of the areas listed.

Bucida spinosa is native to many areas of the Caribbean, including the Bahamas and I have not heard of it naturalizing in South Florida (yet). Not a problem though, it is available from a number of online sellers and on eBay, in small pre-bonsai sizes up to specimen plant sizes. Just search "bucida" on eBay.

I don't know about live oak (Quercus virginiana) yamadori, maybe in pastures and along fence lines or on the edges of forests, or even in older suburbs that tend to have a lot of old live oaks. Collecting with the roots intact is the issue. This species grows rapidly under favorable conditions, so in this particular case I would start with saplings or seedlings and develop your bonsai from there. I am developing one like this, from a seedling I dug up in my garden in 2006. It is doing quite well under the care of my dad in Florida.

I want to get a black gum going here in PA. They do great both here and in Northern and Central Fl and the fall color is amazing. Here is the link to the Florida locale data on black gum, http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=3263 Here is the locale data on sand pine, http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=643 I am not sure about the difficulty in collecting either, but I would try to collect black gum in winter when dormant. Some of the pine experts will have to chime in about the best time to collect pines in the south. Of course, try to get as much of the roots intact when you collect and search this site for threads addressing the best procedures for keeping and developing newly collected material.

 

[SU2]

Based on the range maps (which I am just making general location assumptions based on, not specific like pinpointing a certain State Park), I would say any hardwood hammock in the inland Tampa Bay area could likely be home to American elm. This page, however, will give you more specific locale data for Ulmus americana based on the locations of collected herbarium specimens listed. http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=3530 Now it would just be a matter of getting permission to collect in one of the areas listed.

Bucida spinosa is native to many areas of the Caribbean, including the Bahamas and I have not heard of it naturalizing in South Florida (yet). Not a problem though, it is available from a number of online sellers and on eBay, in small pre-bonsai sizes up to specimen plant sizes. Just search "bucida" on eBay.

I don't know about live oak (Quercus virginiana) yamadori, maybe in pastures and along fence lines or on the edges of forests, or even in older suburbs that tend to have a lot of old live oaks. Collecting with the roots intact is the issue. This species grows rapidly under favorable conditions, so in this particular case I would start with saplings or seedlings and develop your bonsai from there. I am developing one like this, from a seedling I dug up in my garden in 2006. It is doing quite well under the care of my dad in Florida.

I want to get a black gum going here in PA. They do great both here and in Northern and Central Fl and the fall color is amazing. Here is the link to the Florida locale data on black gum, http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=3263 Here is the locale data on sand pine, http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=643 I am not sure about the difficulty in collecting either, but I would try to collect black gum in winter when dormant. Some of the pine experts will have to chime in about the best time to collect pines in the south. Of course, try to get as much of the roots intact when you collect and search this site for threads addressing the best procedures for keeping and developing newly collected material.

That FL plant link...thank you so much!!

Re live oaks, I may try one more 2 (or 3....)-step collection (I do have one in-ground that I've been training for half a year, have severed all radial roots and let them re-grow close to the base of the trunk but still haven't cut that tap-root, once I do I expect 50/50 at best), but after that I'm done wasting time trying to collect (have heard estimates of 10% success for people who routinely do this...no reassuring!), I've actually got a bunch of germinated acorn seedlings growing-out right now because I badly want a live-oak bonsai and, sadly, seems it'll be my first time trying to grow-out a trunk.. the '06 one you dug-up, how large is it now? Would you mind sharing a pic?

Re black gum, can't say I've seen one but will start scouting as they seem to be in my area! Am reallllly set on finding a bucida spinosa now too, hoping I've found replies to my trade-thread here ;D



[oh and FWIW I'd asked earlier whether brazillian pepper trees / 'christmas berry' can be 1-stepped (yamadori) - they can My first attempt had an 80% quality rootball, was maybe 2" wide trunk (before it starts flaring at the base), and the thing quickly sprouted buds all over! I've been rubbing-off every bud except for two that are going to be my leaders, want the thing to reconfigure whatever cambial tissue it has to to pump everything to my two primaries lol ]

 

[BrianBay9]

If you're willing to take invasive species there are bound to be places willing to get rid of them. Melaluca, Cassurina, you've found Schinus (brazilian pepper). If I recall correctly from my misspent youth in Miami, those guys are all over the place causing problems.

 

[JoeH]

That FL plant link...thank you so much!!

Re live oaks, I may try one more 2 (or 3....)-step collection (I do have one in-ground that I've been training for half a year, have severed all radial roots and let them re-grow close to the base of the trunk but still haven't cut that tap-root, once I do I expect 50/50 at best), but after that I'm done wasting time trying to collect (have heard estimates of 10% success for people who routinely do this...no reassuring!), I've actually got a bunch of germinated acorn seedlings growing-out right now because I badly want a live-oak bonsai and, sadly, seems it'll be my first time trying to grow-out a trunk.. the '06 one you dug-up, how large is it now? Would you mind sharing a pic?

Re black gum, can't say I've seen one but will start scouting as they seem to be in my area! Am reallllly set on finding a bucida spinosa now too, hoping I've found replies to my trade-thread here ;D



[oh and FWIW I'd asked earlier whether brazillian pepper trees / 'christmas berry' can be 1-stepped (yamadori) - they can My first attempt had an 80% quality rootball, was maybe 2" wide trunk (before it starts flaring at the base), and the thing quickly sprouted buds all over! I've been rubbing-off every bud except for two that are going to be my leaders, want the thing to reconfigure whatever cambial tissue it has to to pump everything to my two primaries lol ]

you could get a container grown Live Oak and start from there. I have collected small oaks with success, cut the roots at time of collection and then I let them sit in water for a few days before I pot them up.

 

[substratum]

Seeing this thread reminded me of a story I read last month, about University of Florida scientists releasing South American insects called “thrips” to attack/kill Brazilian Pepper Trees. The story says Davie, FL, which is SE Florida.

Scientists release small insects to rid South Florida of Brazilian peppertree

The Brazilian peppertree is a non-native plant now found in Florida that's already invaded some 75,000 acres of land across the Everglades.

www.local10.com

 

[JoeH]

Seeing this thread reminded me of a story I read last month, about University of Florida scientists releasing South American insects called “thrips” to attack/kill Brazilian Pepper Trees. The story says Davie, FL, which is SE Florida.

Scientists release small insects to rid South Florida of Brazilian peppertree

The Brazilian peppertree is a non-native plant now found in Florida that's already invaded some 75,000 acres of land across the Everglades.

www.local10.com

sure hope those thrips don't cross over to other plant species. I have enough probs with the regular old ones here.

 

[substratum]

sure hope those thrips don't cross over to other plant species. I have enough probs with the regular old ones here.

My first reaction to the story was, “What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!”

 

[JoeH]

And hey, if anyone wants a Melaluca, just pick up a bag of Flori-Mulch and use some in your mix, you'll get seedlings asap. lol.

 

[Silentrunning]

A couple of years there was a young man in Sarasota that sold Bald Cypress dirt cheap. He advertised on Craigslist for many years and may still be in business. A few of the first ones I bought from him are over 15’ tall. I have 2 of them growing fine up here in North Carolina.

 

[BrightsideB]

A couple of years there was a young man in Sarasota that sold Bald Cypress dirt cheap. He advertised on Craigslist for many years and may still be in business. A few of the first ones I bought from him are over 15’ tall. I have 2 of them growing fine up here in North Carolina.

I bought three during spring. Do you have to protect them during the winter months? I ask because we have generally the same climate here in Ga.

 

[Silentrunning]

I bought three during spring. Do you have to protect them during the winter months? I ask because we have generally the same climate here in Ga.

I haven’t during the last two winters that I have lived here. With the strange weather everyone is having I may have to someday. I hope not because one of them is already taller than me.