saucyintruder
Sapling
Also thank you all so much for your awesome advice, I really appreciate you taking the time
Critique my young bonsai!
- Thread starter saucyintruder
- Start date
In the context of bonsai soil,
Inorganic = pumice, lava rock, akadama, turface, gravel, decomposed granite, perlite, vermiculite, zeolite, sand, diatomaceous earth, etc.
Organic = compost, peat, sphagnum moss, pine bark (a.k.a. soil conditioner), horticultural charcoal, etc.
saucyintruder
Sapling
Thank youuu amazing
saucyintruder
Sapling
Hey friends! Thankfully, it looks like my wee spruce survived! I did lose a couple branches though. I’m going to wait and see which upper branches display most vigour and will look to remove another few next winter. I don’t think I should try to repot it again this year, despite not using proper bonsai mix. I do, however, want to create more movement in the trunk with proper wire in the fall.
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BubblePopScott
Mame
Hi, I'm also new to bonsai, and know less than very little. I like what you have done with the styling. I can see why others have suggested removing some branches, looks a bit too shapeless, but I think this tree will look quite cool after the next styling. well done
That’s SO not true!
Colorado
Masterpiece
Nice job with the branch removal. I like the asymmetry you’ve created there! Off to a nice start.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Hmmmm... That's so? You earlier said this
Forsoothe, do you have a reading comprehension problem?
The poster said that unspinning wire could cause unnecessary stress to the tree. She recommended cutting it off.
So, I replied “That’s SO not true”. That little 3 letter word “not” is a modifier. It changes the word “true” to “false”.
So, here, i’ll rephrase it in a way you might be able to understand:
“Unspinning wire is not a stressful way to remove wire from a bonsai tree.”
my nellie
Masterpiece
Hello Adair!
In fact, most of the time I unwind the wire very carefully from certain of my trees.
But I would like to summarize the context into which I said what I said above.
So, please let me quote the "story"
However, I take this as a chance to educate myself so I would very much appreciate your comment regarding cut/unwind the wire on the above mentioned specific case (root pruned + wired and then again unwired) of the OP's tree.
Thank you in advance.
I understand that what you say is applying to normal situations when a tree had been dully wired under the optimal conditions and the time has come for the wire to be removed.
In fact, most of the time I unwind the wire very carefully from certain of my trees.
But I would like to summarize the context into which I said what I said above.
So, please let me quote the "story"
Hence, my estimation was that cutting the wire in order to remove it would have stressed the tree less than unwinding it. (OP has said in another thread that she's a beginner...)
However, I take this as a chance to educate myself so I would very much appreciate your comment regarding cut/unwind the wire on the above mentioned specific case (root pruned + wired and then again unwired) of the OP's tree.
Thank you in advance.
The best thing would have been to have just left the wire on.
But, unwinding wire is not stressful unless the person is very careless. You’re more likely to accidentally cut part of the tree when attempting to cut wires. Or, when cutting the wire off in chunks, leave a bit hanging in the tree. I have found bits of wire stuck in crotches of clients trees!
I have found that unspinning the wire is a “best practice” method. I always advocate that people, especially beginners, learn the best way to do something, and do things that way from the beginning. Rather than learn a poor method, and have to relearn a better way later.
my nellie
Masterpiece
Clicio
Masterpiece
Adair, I beg to disagree.
If you cut the wires with a proper wiring cutter tool and be careful, the process can be as good as unwiring the tree.
Do you really consider cutting the wires a "poor method"?
Yes I do.
Large copper, gauge 10 or larger, needs to be cut off. It’s just too stiff to unwind.
But all smaller gauges should be unwound. In a perfect world, wire would be removed before it cuts in. But the reality is wire cuts into the twigs. If the wire looks “flat” on the side closest to the branch, the branch has grown around the wire, aka “cut in”. When you try to cut that off with wire cutters, since the wire is embedded in the branch, to cut it means you also have to cut into the wood. And wire cutters are dull and fat. This scars the tree even more. And, what often happens is if the wire cutters cut at a little bit of an angle, the wire will twist as it’s being cut. When the wire twists, it tears one side of the channel it was in. More unintended damage. Finally, when cutting chunks of wire, it’s easy to leave bits stuck in the tree here and there. Especially in the crotches.
The proper technique is to unspin it. Start with the smallest wire on a branch first. Remove the wires in the opposite order from which they were applied. Use Jin pliers to grab the end of the wire. With the other hand, hold the twig with the wire, one turn back. Spin the pliers opposite to the spin of the wire, and the wire will lift straight up out of the channel. Minimizing damage. Just do one turn. With your free hand, move back one turn on the branch. Unspin done turn with the pliers. Repeat until you reach the anchor point. Then find the other end of the wire, repeat the process back to the anchor point. Remove the wire as a single piece. Once the small wires are removed, then work the larger wires. Once you get up to gauge 10, then you can cut those.
I just removed some wire yesterday, and here’s a picture of what I removed. The vast majority was unspin, a tiny bit was cut off.
I do practice what I preach.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
I use aluminium wires : they're cheaper, and copper is mainly useful on big conifers while I mainly have deciduous.
saucyintruder:
About your tree,
I think you should wire the branches while they're still young to give your tree a more "mature" look : on fir-trees, branches go downward, like :
/|\
instead of :
\|/
saucyintruder:
About your tree,
I think you should wire the branches while they're still young to give your tree a more "mature" look : on fir-trees, branches go downward, like :
/|\
instead of :
\|/
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
What a coincidence! So do I do what I preach: I cut the wire off before it cuts into the branches. A bonsai wire cutter doesn't cut into the branch unless the wire already is cutting into the branch. An electrician's wire cutter is not friendly in bonsai. The few times I have allowed wire marks in my trees have been just enough personal punishment to remind me to take it off sooner rather than later, and that it's better to wire twice than to get wire marks once. Trees grow at fairly predictable rates and at predictable times. I wire at two times a year: In autumn for over winter and de-wiring expected as buds expand into leaves. And May/June for less than 6 weeks on branches that are more green than woody. S-P-F & Juniper mark less pronounced and are often wired for one year, autumn-to-autumn. Again, I'd rather wire twice to accomplish my goal than wire once and leave it on a little too long. I only use aluminum wire except for copper #10 in rare situations, so the cost of single use only wire works for me. I lose very few twigs.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Funny, my wire bites in almost every time before I remove it... and I kinda want it to. The little bit of scarring produced as the wood starts to swell around the wire actually solidifies the new branch placement and without it, the branch doesn't effectively hold the new position as well. Also, the wire scars, if not too severe, can actually add a little bit of character on older conifers like junipers and pines, though that's not my goal. As far as the deciduous trees go, I'm only wiring out new, thin growth... most wire scars will ultimately get pruned away as the branch is repeatedly grown out and cut back, or disappear as the branch thickens and develops more mature bark.
I used to cut the wire off but find unwinding to be easier, faster, and less traumatic to both the tree and me... go figure.
I used to cut the wire off but find unwinding to be easier, faster, and less traumatic to both the tree and me... go figure.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Oh, lets talk about why letting the wire bit in works.
On second thought, I don't want to go there,
On second thought, I don't want to go there,
Wire bends the branch. To get the branch to stay bent, new cells have to grow in that new position, and lignify. The thicker the branch, the more new cells it’s going to take to overpower the old cells that had lignified in the old position. Some trees like Ponderosa pine and Atlas Cedar are very “sappy” and flexible, so they take much longer to “set”.
It’s very different training conifers with wire and training deciduous with wire.
Forsoothe is correct when he says wiring in spring with aluminum is effective on deciduous trees. They usually lignify within 6 weeks. Taking the wire off at that time works just fine. The new growth is set. Doing the same thing to a Ponderosa Pine would see the tree revert back to its old position immediately!
So, like mist everything bonsai, “it depends”.
One of my favorite bonsai videos:
Notice in the video Graham cuts the wire off in chunks. I disagree with this. However, when he does a section where the wire has cut in, he unspins it a bit, then cuts a chunk off. If it were me, I’d just keep going! He stops, changes tools to cut off a chuck, then has to change tools again to get the pliers. If instead he just kept unspinning, he’d be done in half the time!
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0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Wow, that's really good.
Now why does letting wire bite in work better than quickly replacing the it before it does? At least I think many of us believe this to be true, at least to some extent.
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