Cutting Back All At Once?

[jimlau]

I have a Syberian elm that is very vigorous. All branches are where they should be, so i just need to shoot for ramification. Is it safe to cut down on the branch, or should i spread them out.

The top will be left untouched as I am trying to make taller the tree.

Thanks.

 

[leatherback]

ehm.. Duplicate post?

Yes you can prune all in one sitting.

 

[jimlau]

ehm.. Duplicate post?

Yes you can prune all in one sitting.

Thanks. Oops on double post. Can I remove it somehow?

 

[Shibui]

Just be careful when pruning lower branches and leaving any upper branches untouched. Most trees are apical dominant which means they want to grow tall so most resources go to highest branches. If those higher branches are growing well the tree will often let low branches die off because it knows they are not necessary while the top is growing well.
If pruning lower branches I now prune all over, even if the top needs to grow more. This usually prevents low branches dying and the top branches will grow back faster anyway and soon resume the growth you need.
My question is why you want a taller tree. The current proportions appear great. Extra height will make the trunk appear proportionally thinner.

 

[jimlau]

Just be careful when pruning lower branches and leaving any upper branches untouched. Most trees are apical dominant which means they want to grow tall so most resources go to highest branches. If those higher branches are growing well the tree will often let low branches die off because it knows they are not necessary while the top is growing well.
If pruning lower branches I now prune all over, even if the top needs to grow more. This usually prevents low branches dying and the top branches will grow back faster anyway and soon resume the growth you need.
My question is why you want a taller tree. The current proportions appear great. Extra height will make the trunk appear proportionally thinner.

The bottom branch is well, above 1/3 of the tree height. I guess that's not always applicable, but it does better if more height. And yeah, I was wondering if the bottom branches would be abandoned if the top is unchecked. I guess I would prune them back after I re-check the tree proportions. All branches now are growing very healthy and untouched. Once they are cut though, the energy to them is decreased?

 

[Shibui]

All branches now are growing very healthy and untouched. Once they are cut though, the energy to them is decreased?

Even when unpruned the tree will prioritise resources to upper branches because it's aim is to become the tallest tree in the forest. Lower branches on a smaller tree are only temporary to provide food for growing taller and as a fallback if the top is damaged. One of the challenges of bonsai is maintaining healthy lower branches long term and keeping finer ramification in the upper canopy.

 

[jimlau]

Here is the result from pruning. [I need better background for my photos.]

The top is now the size desired. But should I cut it down more, so that new buds will appear closer to the trunk, so to get ramification. If I leave it as is, new buds will pop near the ends of the branches only, right?

thanks.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Yes, the top should be reduced more IMHO, the twigs are longer on the top than on the bottom and will only get worse and the growing season continues

 

[PaulH]

When pruning elms for ramification you should cut every shoot back to two or three nodes all over the tree. If you want a taller apex let just one shoot grow upward until it reaches the desired thickness, then chop it a few inches below the desired height and let new buds form upper branches, let them extend, cut to two nodes ,and so on.

 

[jimlau]

When pruning elms for ramification you should cut every shoot back to two or three nodes all over the tree. If you want a taller apex let just one shoot grow upward until it reaches the desired thickness, then chop it a few inches below the desired height and let new buds form upper branches, let them extend, cut to two nodes ,and so on.

That will leave very little foliage. It is healthy so will give it a go. I do have 1 thread graft near the top that will go untouched this year.

 

[PaulH]

That will leave very little foliage.

No worries. you can totally defoliate elms and they pop right back if they're healthy.

 

[leatherback]

Keep in mind pruning back is not only about length. It is also sorting out which branches to keep, in an intent to not have branches doubling back into the tree and/or interfering with other branches. All branches should "live in harmony" to the branches around them, together showing an explicit rythm. We often use wire to redirect branches.

 

[Shibui]

The top is now the size desired. But should I cut it down more, so that new buds will appear closer to the trunk, so to get ramification. If I leave it as is, new buds will pop near the ends of the branches only, right?

That's pretty much what happens.
The others have already said that growing to full size in one run is not a good strategy. Cut back, allow to grow, cut back and grow. A little at a time may take a bit longer but the results are so much better.
Also, as @leatherback mentioned, There are other consideration for development pruning and maintenance pruning. Directing growth is one. Thinning out crowded areas is another. Also try to prune to maintain relative thicknesses - remove thicker twigs in the upper and outer parts in favour of thinner ones.

The plant growing at the base of your elm looks pretty but it is a very invasive weed in most places. My advice is to get rid of it before it takes over.

 

[leatherback]

Not saying you have to watch this, but you could consider watching over my shoulder as I develop an elm over 2-3 year period here:

 

[jimlau]

Not saying you have to watch this, but you could consider watching over my shoulder as I develop an elm over 2-3 year period here:

Ok, mixed message. Several have said to do it all at once, but then another opinion is to do it 1 section at a time. I've completed the cutting, but made sure a few leaves remained on each branch. Hopefully it will be ok.