Decandling

louieis3

Seedling
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May 1st, bought this JBP 2 months ago. Candles have tripled in size. I live in south Florida with a long growing season. When is the best time to decandle and create a second flush of growth? And should I cut half the candle or all of it? Will it backup on the trunk or just the branches?
 

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I am no black pine expert, but I believe decandling is only performed on trees that have their basic structure and thickness in place. This tree has a long way to go, but are off to a good start.
 
I am no black pine expert, but I believe decandling is only performed on trees that have their basic structure and thickness in place. This tree has a long way to go, but are off to a good start.
I want to keep this one small
 
I want to keep this one small
Keeping a small size tree is fine, but perhaps the tree needs to develop secondary branches and tertiary branches so that foliage/tufts of pine needles can rest believably on mature and well developed or ramified branches.

Tufts of needles at the ends of primary branches (only first branches off the trunk) is not sufficient. This largely applies to just about every tree, shrub, etc.
 
I would pick a branch you don’t like and let it grow as a sacrifice branch. Then I would cut the candles where you want the tree to ramify. But I’m no expert. I’m not sure exactly when is best to remove them.
 
Keeping a small size tree is fine, but perhaps the tree needs to develop secondary branches and tertiary branches so that foliage/tufts of pine needles can rest believably on mature and well developed or ramified branches.

Tufts of needles at the ends of primary branches (only first branches off the trunk) is not sufficient. This largely applies to just about every tree, shrub, etc.
That's what candle cutting does...
 
@louieis3 Candle cutting at this stage will definitely slow development of your pine but if that's what you want you can go ahead.
Decandling will usually stimulate a cluster of buds right at the base of the candle. Occasionally some from the needles further back along the branch but rarely from the trunk.
Notice the growth pattern on the new candles - a bare 'neck' first then the new needles opening. Look back at last year's section and you'll see the same pattern - the bare section first then a cluster of needles where the end of last year's shoots were. Buds can form from dormant buds at the base of each needle pair but never from the bare section so you'll have to give up hope of ever getting new shoots from those bare parts. That's one of the reasons we decandle. The second candles usually do not have the bare section so we can then get shoots all along those ones over the next couple of years.

It is often possible to get some buds further down the trunk but I've only ever managed that with more aggressive pruning. If I really wanted more shoots lower on the trunk I would cut back further than this season's candles, Cut right back so there's only 4 or 5 pairs of needles on each branch, including the trunk.

You already have a potential problem in your pine. There's 4 branches (3 + the trunk) growing from the same place. It's the natural growth pattern of pines and we refer to that as a whorl. If they all stay the trunk will thicken more near the branches causing a swollen area which we call inverse taper. It's not a good look on a bonsai where branch and trunk appearance is very important. We try to remove excess branching from whorls so there's only ever 1 branch and the trunk growing from any place on the tree. Note that you don't have to retain the existing trunk. Often it's better to chop the trunk and keep 2 shorter branches. That not only compacts the tree but also introduces a bend in the trunk.
@TrevorLarsen mentioned sacrifice branches. Leaving 1 extra branch at the whorl and letting it grow long will add thickness to the trunk much quicker than if you trim everything.

Timing: The usual recommendation is to decandle 100 days before expected frost. That can be problematic for growers in warm climates like south Florida. I know some of the pine growers in warmer parts of Australia can decandle more than once each season but I'm not sure what timing they use. We usually wait until the new candles are almost mature before decandling. Too early and the new ones are just as strong as the first which defeats the purpose. Get the timing correct and you should get shorter shoots with no bare section.
If you can find some warm climate timing it will save trial and error but if not I'd try decandling (maybe June?) - cut close to the base of the new shoot - and see what the second candles look like.
Timing is never fatal and won't hurt the tree. The worst we get is delayed new shoots or new shoots that are just as long and vigorous as the first lot. if you do get strong new candles they can be snapped just above the bare part to leave some emerging needles on each candle. That reduces vigour and the candles don't elongate quite as much.

Personally I'd be allowing some more growth before setting out on decandling but good luck with the search for decandling info for south Florida.
 
@louieis3 Candle cutting at this stage will definitely slow development of your pine but if that's what you want you can go ahead.
Decandling will usually stimulate a cluster of buds right at the base of the candle. Occasionally some from the needles further back along the branch but rarely from the trunk.
Notice the growth pattern on the new candles - a bare 'neck' first then the new needles opening. Look back at last year's section and you'll see the same pattern - the bare section first then a cluster of needles where the end of last year's shoots were. Buds can form from dormant buds at the base of each needle pair but never from the bare section so you'll have to give up hope of ever getting new shoots from those bare parts. That's one of the reasons we decandle. The second candles usually do not have the bare section so we can then get shoots all along those ones over the next couple of years.

It is often possible to get some buds further down the trunk but I've only ever managed that with more aggressive pruning. If I really wanted more shoots lower on the trunk I would cut back further than this season's candles, Cut right back so there's only 4 or 5 pairs of needles on each branch, including the trunk.

You already have a potential problem in your pine. There's 4 branches (3 + the trunk) growing from the same place. It's the natural growth pattern of pines and we refer to that as a whorl. If they all stay the trunk will thicken more near the branches causing a swollen area which we call inverse taper. It's not a good look on a bonsai where branch and trunk appearance is very important. We try to remove excess branching from whorls so there's only ever 1 branch and the trunk growing from any place on the tree. Note that you don't have to retain the existing trunk. Often it's better to chop the trunk and keep 2 shorter branches. That not only compacts the tree but also introduces a bend in the trunk.
@TrevorLarsen mentioned sacrifice branches. Leaving 1 extra branch at the whorl and letting it grow long will add thickness to the trunk much quicker than if you trim everything.

Timing: The usual recommendation is to decandle 100 days before expected frost. That can be problematic for growers in warm climates like south Florida. I know some of the pine growers in warmer parts of Australia can decandle more than once each season but I'm not sure what timing they use. We usually wait until the new candles are almost mature before decandling. Too early and the new ones are just as strong as the first which defeats the purpose. Get the timing correct and you should get shorter shoots with no bare section.
If you can find some warm climate timing it will save trial and error but if not I'd try decandling (maybe June?) - cut close to the base of the new shoot - and see what the second candles look like.
Timing is never fatal and won't hurt the tree. The worst we get is delayed new shoots or new shoots that are just as long and vigorous as the first lot. if you do get strong new candles they can be snapped just above the bare part to leave some emerging needles on each candle. That reduces vigour and the candles don't elongate quite as much.

Personally I'd be allowing some more growth before setting out on decandling but good luck with the search for decandling info for south Florida.
 
There are actually 4 branches. Would you recommend cutting 2 and eliminating the whorl effect and letting it grow out? There are actually 4 to 6 candles per each branch. Should I just leave them to grow new branches? I plan on growing this tree out for many years.
 

That's what candle cutting does...
🎯 but I think I needed to state it because the comment I replied to seemed like he wanted the tree to stay in its current size/state/structure. I just wanted to offer clarity on how a tree should look as a ”final product” in case there was confusion or uncertainty.
 
There are actually 4 branches. Would you recommend cutting 2 and eliminating the whorl effect and letting it grow out? There are actually 4 to 6 candles per each branch. Should I just leave them to grow new branches? I plan on growing this tree out for many years.
Wherever possible we reduce multi branches to try to avoid the local thickening they cause. Where possible only have the trunk and 1 side branch at any junction. If that seems too harsh reducing to 2 branches and the trunk is better than leaving the whole bunch.
Shorter branches are gold in pines because they give us much better opportunity to make a more compact branch. Take the opportunity when reducing whorls to remove long, bare branches and retain shorter ones or any with side branches because they will ultimately make it easier to form better branches with ramification.
Leave the candles if they are compact and might make good branches but usually there will be a long, bare 'neck' on spring candles. The bare bit will always be bare. No side branches will grow there. Do you really want a branch where all side branches are 2-3" apart? Much better to remove the candles to get a second crop without the bare section. Then you have the opportunity to get side branches much closer together. Doesn't matter whether there's one or more. Cut a few millimeters above the base. Clusters of new buds will grow right around the base of all teh cut candle stubs. Later in the season we then selectively cut excess new shoots until there's just 2 at any place. letting the extras grow for a while shares the food and enetrgy so they all end up shorter and more compact which is the whole aim.
The second option is to prune back into last year's shoot (but still where there are healthy needles). New buds will grow from each of the older needles just below the cut end. You still get a cluster of new shoots but further back so the branch is more compact.

Try to find someone who can show you all this as it is tedious to type all the possibilities and ramifications.
 
Wherever possible we reduce multi branches to try to avoid the local thickening they cause. Where possible only have the trunk and 1 side branch at any junction. If that seems too harsh reducing to 2 branches and the trunk is better than leaving the whole bunch.
Shorter branches are gold in pines because they give us much better opportunity to make a more compact branch. Take the opportunity when reducing whorls to remove long, bare branches and retain shorter ones or any with side branches because they will ultimately make it easier to form better branches with ramification.
Leave the candles if they are compact and might make good branches but usually there will be a long, bare 'neck' on spring candles. The bare bit will always be bare. No side branches will grow there. Do you really want a branch where all side branches are 2-3" apart? Much better to remove the candles to get a second crop without the bare section. Then you have the opportunity to get side branches much closer together. Doesn't matter whether there's one or more. Cut a few millimeters above the base. Clusters of new buds will grow right around the base of all teh cut candle stubs. Later in the season we then selectively cut excess new shoots until there's just 2 at any place. letting the extras grow for a while shares the food and enetrgy so they all end up shorter and more compact which is the whole aim.
The second option is to prune back into last year's shoot (but still where there are healthy needles). New buds will grow from each of the older needles just below the cut end. You still get a cluster of new shoots but further back so the branch is more compact.

Try to find someone who can show you all this as it is tedious to type all the possibilities and ramifications.
💡 this makes sense! Love it
 
Regarding "I want to keep this one small", like @Shibui said, there are many ways to proceed, and sometimes you are working different parts of the tree with different maturity approaches in order to force a game in some parts of the tree where that game can't be retroactively forced later (such as branch ramification). If you've wired down your branches so they descend, then the next question is something like: "I know I will want this branch to come an inch out of the trunk and bifurcate, shouldn't I do something about that now?".

I think seeing career professionals grow black pine at the smallest scales (mame or shohin) can be illuminating because they've got it down to what they had to do to get a branch <there> or <right there> in a reliable by-the-numbers way. They are obligated to cut somewhere or they'll have lost their last chance to reliably bifurcate in particular spot (as opposed to extending in just-let-it-grow fashion and then hoping for buds in former needle sites much later).

I have very large and bushy JBPs where even after 20 years of field growing and then 5 years in my care, I'm still growing them as if they're single flush pines, wiring down shoots, pulling down previously-wired primaries even farther with guy wire, thinning unwanted needles (various criteria), maybe doing a bit of pruning and calling it a day. There's so much bushyness and ample budding that it's easy to generate structure both at the tips and while bisecting existing branch segments somewhere in the interior. I can decide when to slip into more costly ramification techniques (decandling, cutting-past-the-candle) when I judge it's time, depending on situations local to subtrees within the greater tree.

Meanwhile as an example, I have a very twisty mame/shohin sized JBP where at the start of year 3 as a seedling, I used the costliest ramification technique. I kept going past the candle and into last year's growth, cutting to an elder needle. I wanted that shoot on that elbow of the trunk to begin ramifying at a specific spot, and it did. I'll be wiring and decandling that growth onwards. This move was recommended by Daisaku Nomoto at the Shohin School event in Portland.

From a just-let-it-grow point of view, the question arises: Shouldn't I have just let it grow because I want trunk thickening, nebari, repotting momentum, wound-closing, etc? Yes, but I haven't did away everything in the entire tree (again, different maturity approaches for different regions or subtrees).

For momentum, I have left tall/large sacrificial leader in the "poodle"-style (bushy at tip, needle-less elsewhere along its length). It's kept reduced down to one or two strong/XXL bottlebrush shoots, with very long needles. The tip isn't pruned and is let run season after season for a while until the sacrificial leader is disassembled (either by chop or back to some smaller lower support shoot). Meanwhile, the branches below are in a cycle of pad ramification (decandle, thin, wire, wait for fall, shoot select to a binary tree, clean/thin/wire again, repeat if appropriate next year).

As implied by the other comment, there are many ways to proceed and maybe the following year I instead decide I need to treat the branching as if I'm in single flush mode again, then switch back. Or skip a year of decandling if the tree weakens significantly, especially after a repot.

One more thought on the comment "I want to keep this one small", I recommend learning how to wire pines as expertly as you can from someone in person (at a club or whatever way you can get that skill), and get as much practice as you can wiring. Also learn how to thin JBP during the branch thin-wire-laydown cycle. Once you've learned to wire pine branches, you do it at the earliest sensible opportunity on all pines you have (selectively -- don't necessarily have to wire your sacrificial leader).

Once you are wiring your JBPs, from then on, a lot of "what should I do next" of JBP is driven by the fact that you've wired things into place and you have the "input state" for next year's actions teed up. When you want to keep trees small the cycle is pretty hands-on and the biggest hands-on skill bottleneck IMO is wiring confidence.
 
I highly recommend checking out @Eric Schrader videos on youtube regarding young shohin JBP, if you really want to keep it small. As a noob, his videos (and others) are highly valuable.

I've been following his videos in developing some of my 3-4 year old JBP that I want to keep small.

Before decandling, May 2023.
IMG_20230502_140347.jpg

Basically, if you cut at the base of the candles (I did mine in May), you will get multiple shoots from that cut site and possibly below soon after. I think it only took a few weeks to have new growth popping up. I wired immediately after decandling.

New growth July 2023
IMG_20230702_102051.jpg

By fall, you will have to select 2 keepers and remove the rest.

Growing like crazy, Aug 2023.
IMG_20230817_135005.jpg

I removed all but 2 of the new branches in fall 2023.

April 2024
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May 2024
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If you let a candle go long, you'll end up with leggy areas with no needles and little hope of getting any new shoots in the bare zones.

I think the key is to balance growth vs gaining ramification, so you probably want to be strategic in your decision making. I have not yet selected any shoots as sacrifice branches, but I will be heavily considering that going forward.
 
As a followup on my previous comment, here is another JBP (same exact age) that I have not done any candle work to. I plan on making a Bunjin-style out of this one.

You can see some bare areas where previous year's candles were left to grow. However, it has a thicker trunk.

May 2024
20240502_120828.jpg
 
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