Deshojo Seedling Advice

[Squirrel7t7]

Regarding the original question, maybe there is a connection between low growth rate and germinating late. Genetically low metabolism? Try other seeds

I only had the one seed.. It was attached to a bonsai i bough a few years ago so its a bonus it even survived winter. I'm gonna repot carefully next spring. I might do Peter Chans' sphagnum moss trick.

 

[Squirrel7t7]

I would have expected a lot of growth to be honest. My seedlings normally have 10-15 nodes by the end of year 1. Could be that this is just a weak one.

Note: If grown from seed, it is not a deshojo anymore, but "just" a japanese maple with red spring foliage

Quite true.. I've tried taking cuttings but I never have any success with maples.. Going to try an air layering project for a perfect clone

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Back to the original question.
It is very unusual that any JM seedling does not grow for 2 years. I have never seen that in thousands of seedlings I've grown here but JM are very variable so its vaguely possible this one has a unique combination of genes which is missing whatever controls growth.
The clump of buds under the leaves is simply the result of extremely short internodes and exactly what I'd expect to see in a tree that does not elongate.

I assume you have been fertilising and watering to try to stimulate growth?
The only other possibility I considered has been mentioned - change of soil but can't think why that would cause such extreme lack of growth.
Failing that I'd go back to genetic cause which is extremely interesting but not much help if you want it to grow to develop structure.

Its a strange one but it seems perfectly healthy apart from not branching. It reacts to face the sunlight when I turn it. It wilts a little as the soil dries then springs back after a watering Last year it kept it's bright red colour until they fell off in autumn. The soil mix is the same i use for all my trees. It's an airy mix that drains well. If lack of roots was the problem i doubt it would have survived the winter frost in a 2x2x3 inch bonsai pot. Just gonna wait and see what happens. I might have the worlds smallest bonsai tree

 

[Squirrel7t7]

View attachment 493668
Yes, I know thats how it usually is and how we want it to be, unfortunately DNA tests might disappoint you. Actually Shin Deshojo is one example where Ive heard iseli nursery is selling seedlings or a seedling from what might have been the original Shin deshojo clone AS Shin deshojo. Should not be done of course, but in that case Deshojo seedlings also seem possible
Aside from that, in my opinion its bad practice to pick a cultivar name that contains the name of a previous well known cultivar if its not directly related. Especially if your pitch is "its the old thing, but improved".
Hence my assumption

Looking up Shin Deshojo in the Vertrees/ Gregory book, the wording is "Shin means new, indicating that this cultivar is a later, improved selection of the well-known Deshojo."
Could be interpreted in 2 ways. Either Deshojo is understood as a clone and selection of Deshojo means seedling, or Deshojo is understood as a phenotype like Arakawa apparently often is in Japan, and Shin Deshojo just means great new specimen clone of its type (Deshojos, which would be used how we use Corallinums, perhaps a subgroup of that)

Have you seen a tree-sized Deshojo? Peter-chan has one, I dont remember if hes shown it with seeds.

P.S.: More from the book (deshojo entry): The shojo part of this cultivars name [...] can become confusing. 'Shojo' is an old standard form of the red palmatum. Deshojo as described here, is the base for other selected cultivars. Shin deshojo is a newer selection.
So that leads me to think its indeed a seedling from Deshojo, and Deshojo is fertile.

If the seed came from my Deshojo and not the Atropurpureum i have. then it came from Peter Chan at Herons Bonsai. They are the only red maples I have. The colour is exactly like the Deshojo

 

[Wulfskaar]

Maybe try a bigger, deeper pot with better soil?

2" x 2" x 3" seems very small to me.

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Maybe try a bigger, deeper pot with better soil?

2" x 2" x 3" seems very small to me.

The tree is like 1 inch tall

 

[Squirrel7t7]

The tree is like 1 inch tall

 

[Rivian]

For its size, the pot shouldnt be larger than a cup. If youre tied to this particular seedling, wash off the old soil and put it in a small pot with small or medium grain akadama, and water only when the surface gets dry. If it still doesnt suceed then, youd at least know youve given it every chance.

 

[Daniel son STL]

Did you have it inside or outside last winter?

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Did you have it inside or outside last winter?

Its been outside since I planted the seed 3 years ago. Last year it grew 2 leaves the same as it is now and survived -6C / 21F last winter so its stronger than it looks. The leaves stayed that bright red colour all season until they fell off

 

[Squirrel7t7]

For its size, the pot shouldnt be larger than a cup. If youre tied to this particular seedling, wash off the old soil and put it in a small pot with small or medium grain akadama, and water only when the surface gets dry. If it still doesnt suceed then, youd at least know youve given it every chance.

I have some akadama but it might be a bit too hot for that at the moment.. It's been 28C / 82F every day for the past few weeks.. My soil mixes are drying in the shade in a day.

 

[leatherback]

I have some akadama but it might be a bit too hot for that at the moment.. It's been 28C / 82F every day for the past few weeks.. My soil mixes are drying in the shade in a day.

Might be that this is part of the problem.

How sure are you that your soil dries in a day?
Have you looked deeper in the pot? Too wet soil hampers root revelopment and with that, growth. If you water too often that is nearly as bad as too little

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Might be that this is part of the problem.

How sure are you that your soil dries in a day?
Have you looked deeper in the pot? Too wet soil hampers root revelopment and with that, growth. If you water too often that is nearly as bad as too little

I use the same mix for all my trees and I can tell by the weight of the pot weather its dry, damp or saturated. Its mid summer here in England so it's not unseasonal to get these temperatures, its just unusual to get several weeks of daily high temps. Im lucky because one side of my yard gets full sun most of the day and the other half gets morning sun and shade for most of the day so i can easily moves tress into the shade during the hot days. My other trees and maples are doing fine in the same conditions. It leafed out in Feb and did nothing really for 4 months. Its only been hot for the past 3-4 weeks

 

[leatherback]

I use the same mix for all my trees and I can tell by the weight of the pot weather its dry, damp or saturated. Its mid summer here in England so it's not unseasonal to get these temperatures, its just unusual to get several weeks of daily high temps. Im lucky because one side of my yard gets full sun most of the day and the other half gets morning sun and shade for most of the day so i can easily moves tress into the shade during the hot days. My other trees and maples are doing fine in the same conditions. It leafed out in Feb and did nothing really for 4 months. Its only been hot for the past 3-4 weeks

Still skeptical here.
I doubt you have hotter whether than we are having here. 27-33 for the last weeks, no rain for 6 weeks now. Loads of wind. Yet I water my trees once a day. THey are in inorganics, and not the organics you have. And have up to a metre extention growth.

I seriously doubt the pot gets too dry within hours.

But you have the plant there, not me!

 

[Squirrel7t7]

Still skeptical here.
I doubt you have hotter whether than we are having here. 27-33 for the last weeks, no rain for 6 weeks now. Loads of wind. Yet I water my trees once a day. THey are in inorganics, and not the organics you have. And have up to a metre extention growth.

I seriously doubt the pot gets too dry within hours.

But you have the plant there, not me!

Doubt is just a faith in disappointment. Most of my trees are pretty small and so are the pots they live in. They dry out fast in this weather, i can assure you they don't sit in boggy water. I use a well draining mix. The maple we are talking about lives in a 3x2x2 inch pot an atm I'm watering daily. It's not always necessary like I said, its not usually this hot for this long and we usually get lots of rain in Manchester so it's just temporary. I haves Azaleas that sit in full sun all day and love it so I'm used to keeping on top of moisture levels. I'm going to try Akadama and see what happens.. Just not in this heat.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

I think it's just a runt... if you had many seedlings you'd likely discard