Developing Maples

[AndyJ]

Hi folks.

I’ve got a question about developing maples - particularly those in big grow boxes or in the ground. I thought I’d read somewhere that you need to keep on top of maples roots otherwise they can get away from you and become too thick. I thought you do a repot every year and work on the roots, developing the radial root pattern? Including an annual reduction of the roots. But if you're working on the roots to make sure no roots become big and strong don't you weaken the tree and slow it down?

I‘ve been thinking about the sleep, creep, leap effect. Aren't we just keeping the tree in creep mode if we do this? Don’t we want at least creep mode? If not leap for some of the time?

Also, if you reduce the roots by, say, 50%, should we automatically be reducing top growth by 50% too?

Thanks again.

Andy

 

[Rivian]

Yes, reducing roots reduces vigor. How often and how much you reduce roots depends on how you value thickening vs. orderly roots, for this specific tree at that stage in development. Yes, if you reduce the roots a lot you should also reduce the top somewhat. 50% less roots -> 50% less twigs seems about right as rule of thumb.

 

[Bnana]

You should compare thick roots with branches and root tips with leaves.
For growth it doesn't matter how many branches a tree has, it's the number of leaves that matter. The same is true for roots. Long or short roots make no difference, it's all about the number of growing tips. So reducing the roots can even improve the growth if you remove big roots that don't contribute a lot.

 

[AndyJ]

What about sleep, creek, leap? If you lift the tree every year and trim it’s roots, how does it ever get out of sleep?

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

My take is that it depends on the tree. For example, a trident, grown in the ground where I live has no sleep! It goes right to leap. So, you want to stay on top of it to be sure it doesn’t get out of hand. But another type of tree might be different or slower. In that case, the tree could go two years before the roots are getting too large.

Also, I think the sleep, creep, leap is used by nurserymen to keep clients from calling them pissed that there new trees aren’t growing. Not sure how applicable that is to ground growing Bonsai. Lol.

 

[sorce]

What about sleep, creek, leap? If you lift the tree every year and trim it’s roots, how does it ever get out of sleep?

I don't think that is applicable to all species or situations.

Maples are supposed to be ones that, if healthy, can be severely reduced all around and just go right back to growing.

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

There are many species that can and do grow well even after root work.
Even if the sleep, creep, leap is true you still need to decide do you want good bonsai OR quick bonsai. I have not yet discovered how to get good bonsai quick. Quick growing introduces all sorts of problems an I have not seen many examples of where quick grown trees went on to be great bonsai. All examples I see are from enthusiastic newbies showing the initial stages.
Good bonsai takes time. Sometimes lots of time.

As mentioned earlier, I root prune all my tridents in the grow beds every year now. The only sleep in that cycle is the normal winter dormancy and if there's any creep it is not more than a few weeks after they come out of dormancy. I still think I get far better results with regular root pruning. If it takes a year or 2 longer I'm willing to accept that for the added quality.
Pines and junipers are 2 that don't react as well to root pruning. I leave those alone to grow for 3-5 years at a time.

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks @Shibui that makes sense. I'll carry on with my plan of cutting roots back every year then

 

[leatherback]

Thanks @Shibui that makes sense. I'll carry on with my plan of cutting roots back every year then

Keep in mind climatic differences. Weather in UK and Australia is very different and growth too.

 

[AndyJ]

Yes, good point I'll bear that in mind

 

[PA_Penjing]

and the vigor (vigour?) of each tree may vary a little bit. Remember, it's a bonsai sin to work by a calendar. I plan to do root work on ground grown maples every other year. But I wouldn't do it on a tree that hasn't grown much, just like I wouldn't wait so long if a tree doubled in size with a raw root system

 

[BobbyLane]

I dont really do much root work. i stick them in the ground with already a good base/nebari and just let them get on with it until im ready to dig up. any species.
maybe if i had a garden id be more 'surgical'