Difficult Mugo Styling Advice

[Woodblock77]

Hi all,

I acquired this mugo pine from somebody late last fall. I got it because it was cheap and I wanted a pine, but after looking at it, styling could be troublesome. I know it's not great material. I am looking for advice on how I could turn this into a bonsai. The two trunks are connected at the base, which is very wide, and it appears that there was a third trunk at some point which was chopped off. The candles have never been trimmed back which is unfortunate. The good news is that the tree is vigorous, some branches have begun to back-bud, the roots are healthy and ready for a new pot. What might I do with this? I'll be trimming it up soon. Should I leave it as a unique twin trunk, or lob one off and start anew? I really appreciate any help from those with more experience and knowledge.

 

[Danteswake]

Cant help but wonder what it looks like a little lower, in the soil.

 

[sorce]

I'd keep both.

And don't cut anything till you're sure sure.

Sorce

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'd wire it so that sunlight will produce more buds for you. Maybe reduce triplet branches to doubles.
Then dig around in the soil some more!

 

[Vance Wood]

Start by eliminating any branches that grow accross the front of the tree. Check out the ends of the branches and make sure the ends are only in twos. Eliminate any branches that are growing straight up from a branch and straight down from a branch. This will keep you busy for a while, the process of removing stuff that will not make for a decent bonsai.

 

[0soyoung]

I know it's not great material.

Quite the contrary, this is fantastic material!!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Woodblock77
I think I see several different possibilities in there. But I would not worry about styling the tree now. First, spend some time reading this article.

Tutorial - Compiled Vance Wood on Mugo Pines

Compiled Posts by Vance Wood on Mugo Pines UPDATED 5/20/2018 Vance, I have gathered posts you made on B-Nut over the years from the archives. I have consolidated this info below. I appreciate your sharing your years of experience with this...

www.bonsainut.com

The next thing I would do is exactly as Vance suggested. Get rid of obvious problem branches. If you are not sure a branch is a problem, keep it. For example, straight up, straight down branches often will never fit in the design. If you only take of 2 or 3 branches, that is fine. Then stop.

Myself, I would consider repotting sometime in July. But I live in a relatively mild summer climate. My summers average fewer than 10 days above 90 F (above 32 C). If you live in a "stinking hot desert climate" with low humidity and high heat in summer the timing for repotting will be different.

Where do you live? Don't need a street address, just a general location, that would give fellow BNutters and idea what your weather is like.

Repotting will let you see the nebari, the flair where the trunk widens out to the roots. You don't necessarily want to repot to expose the nebari, you just need to see what is there, then make sure you bury the nebari about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep, to allow the surface roots to continue to develop. You can expose it later, when the tree is closer to finished. But use the nebari, to help pick a "provisional" or initial front for the tree. The choice of a tree's front will change several times as the tree develops, so recognise this is just a first approximation. The the tree recover a year after repotting. Then resume thinking about styling the tree.

If you take your time with a mugo, they develop very nicely. I don't like designing trees from photos, because, they are "just photos" and in real life, the choices would be different. You are the one who needs to eventually see the design possibilities for this tree. I'll say I think I see several, and they involve keeping both trunks. Take your time, I often leave a tree growing on my bench a year or two before deciding what to do with it. I have one boxwood that I have left on my bench for 10 years and still have not decided what to do with it. There is no rush. Inspiration will eventually strike.

That is what I would do if it were mine.

 

[Adair M]

Quite the contrary, this is fantastic material!!

For a Mugo, this is about as good as you can hope for in the US. The growers intend for these to used as shrubs in the landscape, so they grow them like they would grow boxwood.

in Europe, there are amazing yamadori!

 

[Vance Wood]

Nursery Mugos in the US have to be approached as absolute raw material where you have to decide what has to be done to give the tree some direction. It is not likely you will find a Yamadori like tree at the first.

 

[Adair M]

Nursery Mugos in the US have to be approached as absolute raw material where you have to decide what has to be done to give the tree some direction. It is not likely you will find a Yamadori like tree at the first.

Heck, it’s not likely you’ll find a tree! More like a bush!

 

[Vance Wood]

You don't find a tree looking tree because Mugos can be made to grow the way they do. It's sad that so many JBP growers only consider a tree to be anything that looks like a JBP; a single stem with assorted branches, and ignoring trees that have the potential to do what Mugos do.

The trees you see following are all nursery trees and are made by cutting down to a bonsai, as much as possible. The remark that all you will find are bushes if looking for Mugos is partly true, and all you are likely to find with JBP's and Scotts Pines are sticks in pots or very costly and expensive pre-bonsai where the bush and the stick in a pot is developed by an intermediary grower who has developed the stock for resale and for profit.

All of the following

 

[Woodblock77]

Start by eliminating any branches that grow accross the front of the tree. Check out the ends of the branches and make sure the ends are only in twos. Eliminate any branches that are growing straight up from a branch and straight down from a branch. This will keep you busy for a while, the process of removing stuff that will not make for a decent bonsai.

Vance, thanks for your replies. I understand you know quite a bit about these and I appreciate the guidance. I'll start by cleaning it up a bit as you said and perhaps then itll be easier to start seeing a direction for the tree.

 

[Woodblock77]

@Woodblock77
I think I see several different possibilities in there. But I would not worry about styling the tree now. First, spend some time reading this article.

Tutorial - Compiled Vance Wood on Mugo Pines

Compiled Posts by Vance Wood on Mugo Pines UPDATED 5/20/2018 Vance, I have gathered posts you made on B-Nut over the years from the archives. I have consolidated this info below. I appreciate your sharing your years of experience with this...

www.bonsainut.com

The next thing I would do is exactly as Vance suggested. Get rid of obvious problem branches. If you are not sure a branch is a problem, keep it. For example, straight up, straight down branches often will never fit in the design. If you only take of 2 or 3 branches, that is fine. Then stop.

Myself, I would consider repotting sometime in July. But I live in a relatively mild summer climate. My summers average fewer than 10 days above 90 F (above 32 C). If you live in a "stinking hot desert climate" with low humidity and high heat in summer the timing for repotting will be different.

Where do you live? Don't need a street address, just a general location, that would give fellow BNutters and idea what your weather is like.

Repotting will let you see the nebari, the flair where the trunk widens out to the roots. You don't necessarily want to repot to expose the nebari, you just need to see what is there, then make sure you bury the nebari about 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep, to allow the surface roots to continue to develop. You can expose it later, when the tree is closer to finished. But use the nebari, to help pick a "provisional" or initial front for the tree. The choice of a tree's front will change several times as the tree develops, so recognise this is just a first approximation. The the tree recover a year after repotting. Then resume thinking about styling the tree.

If you take your time with a mugo, they develop very nicely. I don't like designing trees from photos, because, they are "just photos" and in real life, the choices would be different. You are the one who needs to eventually see the design possibilities for this tree. I'll say I think I see several, and they involve keeping both trunks. Take your time, I often leave a tree growing on my bench a year or two before deciding what to do with it. I have one boxwood that I have left on my bench for 10 years and still have not decided what to do with it. There is no rush. Inspiration will eventually strike.

That is what I would do if it were mine.

Hi @Leo in N E Illinois
Thanks for all the info you've shared. It will be very helpful going forward. I live in West Michigan so I imagine July will be a good time to repot as you said. Since I lack experience it can be hard to see direction with a tree like this. But i suppose patience is key and it'll make more sense as the tree develops. If this tree can work with both trunks I'll absolutely keep them. I appreciate the advice.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Since you are in West Michigan, put May 9 & 10 on your calendar. The Meijer Botanic Garden in Grand Rapids is hosting a bonsai show. There will be vendors and 50+ trees on display. That is if the garden re-opens, as we are "living in this time of Covid19". Currently the garden is closed to the public.

If the show does happen, the vendors will be
Ken's Bonsai World
GrowCo
Linda Ippel
Hidden Gardens
BC Bonsai
Heritage Laurels
Mark Fields
Asian Artique
The Flower Market

Several of which will carry all the re-potting supplies you might need.

 

[Woodblock77]

Update on this tree: it's not looking so difficult anymore in terms of what the tree can become and how to deal with it. I haven't touched it since my last post (I'm waiting until July), but I have spent a lot of time looking at it, considering different possibilities, and developing an informed game plan. After reading through the info provided in previous replies to this thread (several times over) and watching some of Vance's youtube videos that I stumbled upon, I have developed a much better understanding and appreciation of this tree. I'm quite fond of it.

I would like to get the tree into some better soil but I am not sure if repotting is a good idea (contrary to my first post). It is in what appears to be about 90% topsoil and 10% gravel. Doesn't retail a lot of water, but doesn't drain particularly well or allow much air in the soil. I do not know when it was last repotted- it has been at least a year or two- (I acquired the tree in the fall) but the roots have not grown to the depth of the pot. Actually, the roots are compact and completely reside in the top 2/3 of the pot it's currently in. Should I leave it alone, or do a gentle repot and put it into a nice conifer substrate mix? I have a shallower pot that will fit the tree nicely, or perhaps a pond basket if that would be better for this stage of development.

 

[Woodblock77]

I've not yet seen the nebari, but the base of this will be quite nice for the size of the tree. Excluding the nub that was the third trunk at some point, the base at the soil line is around 3 3/4" and each trunk is about 1 3/8" after the split. The trunk on the left has a knuckle and several crossing branches. When I take those out in July, that trunk will be quite curved in the overall shape. For this reason, I am considering planting the tree on an angle in the next repot and training the tree as a semi-cascade (left trunk cascades, right trunk balances the right and forms the apex). I will be closer to that decision once I reduce the branches. I am happy knowing that whether I begin training as a semi-cascade or not, the tree will have a lot of character.

I probably wont do much, if any wiring, except to perhaps open the tree up and let some more sunlight in if necessary.

 

[Vance Wood]

One thing about Mugos that many are not aware of; they have shallow root systems that show up in some plants from time to time this one lookl like one of them. Without seeing the entire tree in context it is impossible to give any sound advise.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you are not sure about the quality of soil, it is far better to repot into a media you know the quality of, than put off repotting.

 

[Woodblock77]

Update on this tree: lots of new growth. I decided to go for the repot to get it in some decent soil. Roots looked good. I took my time to rake them out gently and chose not to prune them at all past what had come out with the rake. The pot seemed just a little shallow due to the angle change but I worked in quite a bit of soil with a chopstick. I thinned out the tree nicely by just eliminating problem branches and cutting ends to twos. Probably 25-30% of the foliage. Now I will look for a while, maybe set a couple of the large forms with wire.

Thanks again for all the advice. It's always welcomed and appreciated.

 

[Vance Wood]

Update on this tree: lots of new growth. I decided to go for the repot to get it in some decent soil. Roots looked good. I took my time to rake them out gently and chose not to prune them at all past what had come out with the rake. The pot seemed just a little shallow due to the angle change but I worked in quite a bit of soil with a chopstick. I thinned out the tree nicely by just eliminating problem branches and cutting ends to twos. Probably 25-30% of the foliage. Now I will look for a while, maybe set a couple of the large forms with wire.

Thanks again for all the advice. It's always welcomed and appreciated.

You coulds reduce down the top a bit and not harm the tree. A lot of possibilities with this one.