DOGE reductions ARS

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Woocash said:
I'm not even sure what this means, but just to point out, I looked up what it was meant to signify and it was attributed to Sinclair Lewis, among others - not CS Lewis, but even then it's a false quote.
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Yes, you are correct--C.S. was a typo on my part. It is not certain who actually said it but it widely attributed to Sinclair Lewis. If you know the true author I would love to know.
 
Here is one that is extremely well documented and just as appropriate to our current political climate:

"When they came for the Jews I did not speak out because I was not a Jew." --Martin Niedmoller. The exact English translation varies a little depending on which source you check.

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Michael P said:
Yes, you are correct--C.S. was a typo on my part. It is not certain who actually said it but it widely attributed to Sinclair Lewis. If you know the true author I would love to know.
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Honestly, I'm not even sure there is one. I think it's an amalgamation of musings of various people, wrapped up to make a point.

Before I go on I would firstly like to say, I'm no Trump fanatic just a well reasoned centrist, but unless I am misunderstanding the point, the fact that this quote isn't in fact real is exactly why he has become so popular. Basically nothing used to tarnish him has actually proved true. It's all just one big smear campaign.

No derision intended. Just an observation.
 
What about this one: "He who saves his Country does not violate any Law".
 
Not for nothing, we seem to be ignoring the fact that there is waste/fraud of astronomical proportions in government. There is an actual “deep state”.

Nobody came to this thread to look at trees. There’s no reason to participate if you don’t want to say or hear things here. Maybe y’all can at least pretend to be a little disappointed in the progressives who used every single cause to rob us blind and subvert our interests. And then maybe we can understand why we can’t have nice things.
 
dbonsaiw said:
Not for nothing, we seem to be ignoring the fact that there is waste/fraud of astronomical proportions in government. There is an actual “deep state”.

Nobody came to this thread to look at trees. There’s no reason to participate if you don’t want to say or hear things here. Maybe y’all can at least pretend to be a little disappointed in the progressives who used every single cause to rob us blind and subvert our interests. And then maybe we can understand why we can’t have nice things.
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Yet Elon Musk has so far been unable to show any evidence for fraud. How many criminal cases were opened on the fraud that was discovered? If someone defrauded the federal government for millions of USD, that would be a crime. How many people were arrested? Or was it all lies by Musk?

As for waste, the biggest waste so far has been DOGE itself. If the courts hold, all people fired by Musk have to be rehired. And for projects that you don't like, it is probably better to let them just terminate at their end date, and then not renewing them. Rather than just canceling and firing everyone involved on the spot. After getting permission to do so from congress. And no, sending condoms to third world countries with high prevalence of HIV is not waste. Even if you don't agree with spending US taxpayer money on it.
I am sure there is plenty of actual waste in the US federal government. But so far, only crickets. Oh no wait, I just found a link to it all:
www.bbc.com

Fact-checking Elon Musk's claims in the Oval Office

The billionaire has made a number of exaggerated or unevidenced claims during a White House event.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Also, I am so sick of turning on my Dutch news. And hearing about yet another Trump plan on how to lower grocery prices. How to cut back egg prices to the level they were at under Biden. Or about the legislation that is going to congress on how to lower the cost of gas, of medicine, of healthcare services, or construction materials. Every day I see a new speech of Trump outlining his policy plan to achieve these campaign promises.

Anyway, Trump has admitted on social media that he is breaking the law. He just added that him breaking the law is fine as long as he thinks he is saving the country.
 
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dbonsaiw said:
And then maybe we can understand why we can’t have nice things.
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The topic of this thread is about potentially losing something nice? Sergio was trying to bring this to our attention.

We need to stop the arguing. It’s bs. What matters to the community matters most here. Which is the viability of the arboretum and museum. I tend to think it’ll be ok. But who knows. There isn’t any straight answer. That’s scary to me.
 
Why would you see a political thread title, click on it, and then complain that people are arguing about politics? If you don't want to argue about politics, then don't click on political threads. This conversation isn't invading The Tree Thread, where people go to look at pictures of trees. It's in a thread about an explicitly political topic.
 
Michael P said:
Here is one that is extremely well documented and just as appropriate to our current political climate:

"When they came for the Jews I did not speak out because I was not a Jew." --Martin Niedmoller. The exact English translation varies a little depending on which source you check.

​

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They're cutting the budget, not people.
 
It's definitely been interesting watching all the Trump supporters giddying it up as the federal government is being recklessly torn apart. The only consolation in all of this is when that critical jenga piece is removed and it all comes crashing down, it's going to come down on them as hard as everyone else.

That said - I think we can all agree that there are massive amounts of waste and fraud in the system. Is this the best approach to deal with it, though? People often reference what Musk did at twitter as a comparable, but to me it's not really comparable at all. If he had destroyed twitter and it disappeared overnight, no one would care. The impact on the world would be minimal at best. But taking down whole US government agencies in one fell swoop is a completely different matter that can have huge global implications. Even if USAID has massive amounts of fraud, they still do many good things around the world. My wife and I know someone who works (or worked I guess) for the agency and was involved in improving education in 3rd world countries. Not anymore. So yeah, they are cutting people too.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong on this, and the end result will be a streamlined functional government that better serves the needs of the population. I think it's more likely to lead to global instability and possibly economic collapse/depression. We will see.
 
Ok the trees were nice...

My concern would also be the speed at which the disintegration of systems seems to be moving, but that is purely from a fear of the unknown. In bonsai parlance, if we have a diseased branch beyond repair we cut it off and start again. It may be painful, rather that than the whole tree succumbing.

I think we can all agree that the world before Trump ii was diseased. This is an attempt at growing a new branch before the whole tree has to hit the burn pile.

I have a toddler screaming at me so my analogy has to stop there, but you get the gist.
 
DogwoodApprentice said:
This sentiment of "easy to get permits from national forests" really only applies out West. I've spoken with Andy about it directly. Currently corresponding with multiple states on the east coast for collecting legally, they make the process an enormous pain in the ass. Ongoing discussions with rangers in NC and WV for over two years. To do my collecting legally in Vermont next month, I have to provide the state with proof of worker's compensation and proof of indemnity insurance...
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That's because that land was settled before the United States changed policy positions and started caring about making public land for everyone to use. My fiancée and I spent a year traveling to national parks and boondocking. It was almost exclusively done west of the Mississippi because there is plenty of space that allows free camping. That couldn't be done as easily on the East coast.

While state forests are an option their regulations and policies are very different. Not everyone has a rich friend that will let you dig trees on their land.
 
coh said:
It's definitely been interesting watching all the Trump supporters giddying it up as the federal government is being recklessly torn apart. The only consolation in all of this is when that critical jenga piece is removed and it all comes crashing down, it's going to come down on them as hard as everyone else.

That said - I think we can all agree that there are massive amounts of waste and fraud in the system. Is this the best approach to deal with it, though? People often reference what Musk did at twitter as a comparable, but to me it's not really comparable at all. If he had destroyed twitter and it disappeared overnight, no one would care. The impact on the world would be minimal at best. But taking down whole US government agencies in one fell swoop is a completely different matter that can have huge global implications. Even if USAID has massive amounts of fraud, they still do many good things around the world. My wife and I know someone who works (or worked I guess) for the agency and was involved in improving education in 3rd world countries. Not anymore. So yeah, they are cutting people too.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong on this, and the end result will be a streamlined functional government that better serves the needs of the population. I think it's more likely to lead to global instability and possibly economic collapse/depression. We will see.
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I agree, and I can appreciate the word play, but let's not equivocate. Cutting people from the federal payroll is not the same thing as cutting people. This isn't the Night of the Long Knives. It's just a ham-fisted attempt to reduce the federal budget.
 
coh said:
It's definitely been interesting watching all the Trump supporters giddying it up as the federal government is being recklessly torn apart. The only consolation in all of this is when that critical jenga piece is removed and it all comes crashing down, it's going to come down on them as hard as everyone else.

That said - I think we can all agree that there are massive amounts of waste and fraud in the system. Is this the best approach to deal with it, though? People often reference what Musk did at twitter as a comparable, but to me it's not really comparable at all. If he had destroyed twitter and it disappeared overnight, no one would care. The impact on the world would be minimal at best. But taking down whole US government agencies in one fell swoop is a completely different matter that can have huge global implications. Even if USAID has massive amounts of fraud, they still do many good things around the world. My wife and I know someone who works (or worked I guess) for the agency and was involved in improving education in 3rd world countries. Not anymore. So yeah, they are cutting people too.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong on this, and the end result will be a streamlined functional government that better serves the needs of the population. I think it's more likely to lead to global instability and possibly economic collapse/depression. We will see.
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The unaffordable size of the federal government is what helps bring inflation to 40 year highs. You can even use bonsai to help describe bad government and over bloated government. A well balanced government/tree is much easier to maintain and you get much better growth and accountability from it. I understand that the liberal mind is more about enabling and taking care of everyone and everything. This would be the cominc book heroes that save the world. But in doing so it's very costly and quickly grows the size of the government. This allow for the corruption this allows for the racketeering off our taxes in far off places when they need to be invested into our own communities. Spend less so our poor of poor can make their only dollars work better for them. In liberal big cities in America the average income needed to live comfortably is now at $90,000+ is this evidence for the people are skeptical of liberal ideologies are working? Do they truly stand for "affordable housing"? It takes courage to downsize the federal government and massive spending. I will absolutely take cuts in museums and parks if it helps to bring down costs for the poor.
 
It's truly amazing how much waste the government "experts" have been hiding/racketeering off of.
 
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