Donald Trump.

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Vance Wood said:
The American jobs that have gone over-seas have been driven there by the highest tax rates in the modern industrial world. Our country has suffered under a quasi socialist application of government over the last nearly twenty years, more or less. This kind of mixed economy does not work well for long. You can only live on other people's money as long as you don't run out of other people's money. It is like burning up the wood in your orchard for heat then wondering why you don't have any apples to sell. It takes time to burn beyond the owner's ability to produce apples from other sources before the owner can no longer make a living by selling apples. We have gotten to that point.
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I totally agree with you.
 
Vance Wood said:
SKBoWrote.. imagine, what might happen if Trump starts to punish the American businesses that produce goods abroad and then bring them back into the country... imagine the entire Silicon Valley moving to Germany.

That "could" be the result of a protectionist regime.


You think business is being punished, that's not what's happening it is quite the opposite. Trump wants to reduce taxes down to no more than 15%, not the 35% we currently have. This will attract business. I am not sure how NAFTA impacts all of this but Trump wants to renegotiate it not get rid of it.
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Trump said that he wants to impose a 35% import tax on products produced overseas by American business entities... does that mean that an Apple computer that has a large number of components made in East Asian countries would be subject to that?... we'll see.

And, he also said that IF he can't re-negotiate a NAFTA deal, then he will scrap it. Sitting in the cheap seats as I am, I'm pretty sure that re-negotiating it won't happen... I give it a 30-70% chance that it will be scraped, and there won't be a happier guy around than me.

... both points are in the links to the article that I posted earlier... I can find them if you want me to.
 
Vance Wood said:
At some point you have to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs that has taken place since the drafting of NAFTA. The last I have heard is that because of all the manufacturing jobs that have left the country we now have an unemployment rate of 85 million jobs, and that does not include the hard core unemployed people that have stoped looking for work. If things keep going the way they are and America fails how long do you think Canada can stand alone?
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The hemorrhaging of jobs has been going on for over 20 years like you pointed out earlier. The reality is that those jobs are gone to the economies that can pay workers far less to produce the same product. i.e. China... it wouldn't be any different if it was Canada, France, England, Australia, on and on. The only jobs are that are "safe" are the jobs that can't be exported, and that goes for all of the same countries that I just mentioned too. Everyone likes to try and point out that Canada is protected by the U.S. I have never agreed with this for one simple reason. Our economy is a resource based economy and as long as Canada is willing to trade freely with ALL of the countries of the world, our sovereignty is safe. The moment that we say that ALL of the resources are ours and everyone can go hump a goat, then we'll have problems. Canada is an open nation to trade with any nation who is going to treat us fairly and with respect... how long would it take for China to decide that it should come lend a hand to Canada if the American government decided that it wanted to play hard ball?... the same goes for England, France, Russia, Japan, Australia, all of Canada's trading partners. China doesn't have to come and take over Canada, China just has to come over and ensure that the trade that they want to have with Canada continues... it's called World Trade.

Americans have to face it, many of those jobs that are gone won't return, because the economic realities in the world today. Whenever, you are trying to compete with cheap labour, with low overhead, you're bound to loose. That is exactly why Canada couldn't compete with the U.S. for manufacturing... our winters for much of the country automatically drive the overhead high enough that the product was more expensive to produce in Canada as compared to the U.S., so there was no market for it.

I can afford to buy Red Wing boots. $300.00 a pop here. But the last time I went to a Red Wing store, the shoes I bought were made in China... and still $180.00. I can tell you one thing, that won't happen again... I'm just as money conscious as the next guy and we all have our priorities to satisfy.

Always remember, that "I" am going to be the happiest guy around if Trump walks out and kills NAFTA, I didn't want it then, I don't want it now, and the moment that NAFTA is killed, it will do ZERO to help the American Government re-coup jobs THAT HAVE GONE OVERSEAS.
 
The thing that I hate about many Americans is that "they have to lay blame"... it can never be the fault of the American Government, or American mismanagement. Part of the situation that is going on today is the high tax rates as you pointed out. But the other part is the simple reality of cost per unit of manufactured good.

Look at guitars. There was a time when the Epiphone line was make in America. Then it went to Japan (I think), then to Korea, and now to China. The fact is that the manufacturing jobs/exports go to the "lowest producer" because those jobs can be readily exported... Korea didn't do anything "wrong", China just said, "hey we can make the same product cheaper"... so the plant moved. Just like BRP (Bombardier sports. i.e. seadoos, etc.), left Canada and went to Mexico. No one did anything wrong, it was just cheaper to make them in Mexico and it makes them more affordable for the consumer... I guess more profitable for the manufacturer at the same time. You'd do that, I'd do that, every good business man would do that.

The last thing that I'll touch on is the fruit and vegetable picking jobs... America allows Mexicans to come and do this work... why aren't unemployed Americans doing it?... you know the answer, and I know the answer... Americans, just aren't hungry enough yet to see it as a "fitting" job for them.
 
SKBonsaiGuy:

Don't bother: Canada and Europe have struck a deal: http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/

Of course, it would be much more sensible to trade with local partners, it would save a lot of energy, carbon emissions, it would mean fresher products, but what can you do in Trumpland?...

Anyway, we've got such historic and economic links with companies like Bombardier and others that it would be totally stupid to severe these links. Thousands of jobs on either side of the pond would be at stake.

Anyone pretending to "give the jobs back home" would either be a crook, or so stupid as to "shoot himself in the foot", as we say here ;)

Just plain common sense.

I'm disappointed, but I have no fear.

 
@ Vance Wood

I think that we've pretty much covered the main points of this topic and I certainly don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers. I just know from experience that the American people don't get the straight goods from the news services in regards to these types of topics. If you wish to continue this conversation we can, but for the most part, I think I covered or explained the main points of the problems ahead.

I hope for the good of the American people, that Trump's advisors will warn him away from a bullheaded approach to International Trade... but "I" see dark days ahead...
 
I think you and Alan are doing the same thing you did before Trump was elected; looking at the world and what is----- through myopic eyes fueled by liberal fantasies. All of us that were looking for Trump to win were labeled as fools and stupid---- and I suppose other less flattering adjectives in your eyes, but in the end who won regardless of what you thought? Trump that's who. I sat and watched TV most of the last two days and all of the talking heads who laughed at Trump are not laughing and trying to figure out what went wrong, those who were for him if not marginally are now trying to say what he needs to do blah blah blah, while they too predicted he could not win. Why don't you write him?
 
Oh wow, I didn't think you were like that Vance... I don't think that I said much about Trump at all during the election, and FWIW, I wouldn't have any different concerns for the American people had Hilary have won. Twenty to thirty years ago, I expressed these same concerns when NAFTA was coming in and I was faced with the same attitude that you just displayed to me now. There isn't any deception or lies in what I wrote, but I guess people don't want to hear the truth when it's staring them in the face.

At what point in time are the American people going to begin to listen to the advice of their friends; when they don't have any friends left?
 
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Anyway Vance, I don't have any hard feelings toward you... I understand the position you are in because the American Government has had Canada in this position for my entire adult life... what goes 'round, comes 'round I guess.
 
I thank my Lucky stars that Obama is out of Power, what an 8 year disaster he has been...

C'mon Mr Pres Trump... bring it on, lets show the World who Number One is on the GeoPolitical Chess board...

The Dream Bucket List for 100's millions immigrants trying to enter the USA, Legal an Illegal...

Mom, Apple Pie, Guns, Bikinis, Cars, Total Freedom, Hamburgers, Cokacola, American Fries, Disney, Mickey Mouse, Theatres, Shopping malls, Housing, Great Schools 1-12 and Colleges, Horticultural, Bonsai, Cowboys and Indians, Firemen, Police, and On and On and On, is AMERICA GREAT OR WHAT???
 
SKBonsaiGuy said:
At what point in time are the American people going to begin to listen to the advice of their friends; when they don't have any friends left?
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When America's so called friends seem to care about what is actually happening to America not just how they can get America to defend them, and support them, and send jobs their way. You guys seem to forget; if you look at industrial America as it is today and if we were faced withWWII to play again---- we would lose. American industry defeated Germany and Japan, that industry has moved off country it is no longer ours to control. The reasons why are long and not a good place for them here.
 
To Vance Wood, from AlainK...

And you will have to take the consequences in your ever shrinking fenced off little ex-superpower who hates, but above all fears everything that doesn't match the tiny little idea of the world of your new elected con-man-in-chief ;)

Vance, AlainK is just a 23 year old Frustrated, Pseudo Intellectual stuck in a 10th rate Country living in his Mothers Basement wishing he could be in America enjoying our Unlimited Freedoms and Opportunities and doing Bonsai.....Ohhhh its so Great to be an American.....
 
Bolero said:
To Vance Wood, from AlainK...

And you will have to take the consequences in your ever shrinking fenced off little ex-superpower who hates, but above all fears everything that doesn't match the tiny little idea of the world of your new elected con-man-in-chief ;)

Vance, AlainK is just a 23 year old Frustrated, Pseudo Intellectual stuck in a 10th rate Country living in his Mothers Basement wishing he could be in America enjoying our Unlimited Freedoms and Opportunities and doing Bonsai.....Ohhhh its so Great to be an American.....
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Thank You for keeping me centered.
 
"When America's so called friends seem to care about what is actually happening to America not just how they can get America to defend them, and support them, and send jobs their way."

Ummm, who sent the American jobs away?

AMERICAN GREED DID, both through unrealistic taxation (as even you pointed out), the AMERICAN companies who had to squeeze every penny out of ever unit produced, and the economic realities of the REAL world... it has NOTHING, to do with your friends... there is the typical American response again... have to lay blame don't cha!... go look in the friggin mirror, and then go around the house and count the number of items you have that came from Walmart; there, is your answer in a nutshell!
 
America is a very, very Materialistic Society-Country, we need everything that could improve our Lifestyle above the common or European Lifestyle and we have all those extravagant Goodies at our Walmart's, K Mart's, Target's and of course all the High End stores like Sak's, Tiffinay's, and so on and on and on...
We live the Good Life, We Love the Good Life, We are America and Pres. Trump is going to make it even Better...
Life is Good, I even do Bonsai Gardening.....
 
American blaming everyone else for the woes they created themselves is like me blaming Bolero for the pee-stain on the fresh underwear I put on this morning. It's so ridicules.
 
I don't think America is blaming anyone but ourselves for our woes. I don't know what you have been listening to or reading? We are in trouble because we have gotten ourselves into some bad deals, we have burdened our businesses with destructive taxes, we have elected governments that thinks it can tax itself into prosperity, we have elected governments that believe it is our goal in the world order of things to be guarantor to world piece and prosperity, we have elected governments that are now in trouble because as is the case with all experiments in Socialism dependent on spending other people's money; it only works till other people's money runs out. That is the condition the current election has found itself in coupled with an International threat where one or more entities seek to destroy us because of what they believe and their erroneous perception that we seek to take over the world.
 
"their erroneous perception that we seek to take over the world."

Perhaps, the first step in changing that perception is to stop invading other countries, stop piping crummy reality T.V. shows into countries that don't share the same cultural ideals, stop deposing governments in sovereign foreign nations, accept the fact that you are just "part" of the world at large and no more important that anyone else, trade feeling and fairly with the friends that you still have left, accept that the world is an ever changing economic entity that causes all countries to rise and fall in fortune, and quit bragging how much better you are than everyone else.

Go overseas and ask some of the people in different nations what they think of the American situation... no one gives a shit for two reason, they view the Americans as loud-mouthed bullies on the world stage, and they have a life to live that is their own... like a primadonna teenage girl; American needs to get over herself.
 
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