Eastern Red Cedar Forest

[Attmos]

I am finding a lot of ERC popping up in my little back garden. I've potted three of them, and I just noticed a few more sprouts.

It seems to me like a perfect opportunity to do a forest, but I really have no idea how to begin. I realize there are several videos, of which I intend to watch.... but I'd still really like to have someone here explain the process for me.

 

[Wulfskaar]

As far as I know, there are 2 approaches.
1. Grow several trees separately and add them when you are ready to make the forest. I think this is how pros make higher quality forest plantings, as they can arrange the trees exactly how they want.
2. Plant a tons of seedlings together and develop the long way.

My biggest forest (so far) was made using option 2. I planted a bunch of sweetgum seeds and the survivors are what I have to work with. I can always add or remove as I see fit, but since the core trees have never been separated, it would be difficult to move a single tree out of the forest without just chopping it to soil level.

I look forward to seeing what you do with these, as they could make a badass forest one day.

 

[Attmos]

As far as I know, there are 2 approaches.
1. Grow several trees separately and add them when you are ready to make the forest. I think this is how pros make higher quality forest plantings, as they can arrange the trees exactly how they want.
2. Plant a tons of seedlings together and develop the long way.

My biggest forest (so far) was made using option 2. I planted a bunch of sweetgum seeds and the survivors are what I have to work with. I can always add or remove as I see fit, but since the core trees have never been separated, it would be difficult to move a single tree out of the forest without just chopping it to soil level.

I look forward to seeing what you do with these, as they could make a badass forest one day.

I watched a video showing several seedlings being laid down with what looked like mud, on the bottom of a bonsai dish, which was then covered with soil of some kind. Need to find it again.

 

[Attmos]

As far as I know, there are 2 approaches.
1. Grow several trees separately and add them when you are ready to make the forest. I think this is how pros make higher quality forest plantings, as they can arrange the trees exactly how they want.
2. Plant a tons of seedlings together and develop the long way.

My biggest forest (so far) was made using option 2. I planted a bunch of sweetgum seeds and the survivors are what I have to work with. I can always add or remove as I see fit, but since the core trees have never been separated, it would be difficult to move a single tree out of the forest without just chopping it to soil level.

I look forward to seeing what you do with these, as they could make a badass forest one day.

Just a memory. As I said, I need to find the video again.

 

[Attmos]

I guess I need to let them grow up a bit before starting anything.

 

[rockm]

The best forests are made from trees of varying sizes and not from small seedling all the same size. That is because forests aren’t made of same sized trees also forests have forced perspective for the viewer. Smaller shorter trees in the back and larger taller trees in the front. That placement makes the smaller trees look “far away” compared to the taller trees in front.

The best book on forests is Saburo Kato’s “Forest,Rock and Ezo Spuce Bonsai”. It’s out of print and expensive if you don’t know where to look but it has invaluable “examples” of forest plantings and diagrams for them.
This forest at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum” uses forced perspective very very well

 

[Wulfskaar]

Never forget... listening to @rockm will get you much, much better results in the long run. He is always steering us into making high-quality, exceptional show-quality bonsai. I'm just a goofy beginner with goofy ideas.

However, if you have enough seedlings to work with, something like the following planting might be fun and you won't have to wait 20 years to make it happen. Remember, it's not permanent. The trees can be pulled apart later, or added to another forest, or whatever you want. The beauty of art is that you can do whatever makes you happy.

Check out Nigel Saunders on youtube. He's got a cedar forest with several videos over the years, so you can watch how it's changed over time.

 

[rockm]

I’m not steerig anyone towards world class bonsai. I try to get people to think a little more deeply about what they’re doing. There’s more to a forest plantings than multiple trees

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Andrew Robson has made some fairly respectable forests by sowing seeds in flats and eventually removing unwanted, or trunks in the wrong positions,
then allowing some to extend and get bigger and conversely restricting the ones that need to be smaller.

Bill Valavanis has been teaching forest design/construction of forests using very young seedlings for decades.

However, most successful forests are likely built from more mature material.

Why not give it a try if the material is cheap/free and available, nothing to lose.

 

[Attmos]

The best forests are made from trees of varying sizes and not from small seedling all the same size. That is because forests aren’t made of same sized trees also forests have forced perspective for the viewer. Smaller shorter trees in the back and larger taller trees in the front. That placement makes the smaller trees look “far away” compared to the taller trees in front.

The best book on forests is Saburo Kato’s “Forest,Rock and Ezo Spuce Bonsai”. It’s out of print and expensive if you don’t know where to look but it has invaluable “examples” of forest plantings and diagrams for them.
This forest at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum” uses forced perspective very very well
View attachment 601934

That is pretty amazing, the forced perspective in this forest. Are forest setting Bonsai or does that technically make them Penjiing?

Ok, Saburo Kato’s “Forest,Rock and Ezo Spuce Bonsai”. I'll pick up a copy. Thanks very much.

 

[rockm]

That is pretty amazing, the forced perspective in this forest. Are forest setting Bonsai or does that technically make them Penjiing?

Ok, Saburo Kato’s “Forest,Rock and Ezo Spuce Bonsai”. I'll pick up a copy. Thanks very much.

Doesn’t make them Penjing. They’re bonsai. Tomato tomahto

Good luck with the book. It sells for $250-400 online depending on where you look

 

[Attmos]

Doesn’t make them Penjing. They’re bonsai. Tomato tomahto

Good luck with the book. It sells for $250-400 online depending on where you look

Just found a copy right down the street, and they're asking $250. I want it, but I'll have to think about it for a minute... lol