Good Hornbeam material?

[Scrogdor]

Just tilled it over and put my feet on the pot lol. Would be about a 70% reduction to get it in that pot. Don’t mind the toilet

 

[Shogun610]

Goood anakin gooood..

And no matter, seems like a clean porcelain throne

 

[Scrogdor]

Think it's alright to bareroot this and get it into a bonsai mix? I know hornbeams can take a beating in terms of repotting, but not sure on the rules of moving it straight form such a large nursery pot with pretty organic potting mix into a akadama/other stuff mix. Reduced the root mass by about 2/3s. Might end up cutting down it's original pot, Doesn't quite fit in this 13.5" training pot lol

 

[Shogun610]

Think it's alright to bareroot this and get it into a bonsai mix? I know hornbeams can take a beating in terms of repotting, but not sure on the rules of moving it straight form such a large nursery pot with pretty organic potting mix into a akadama/other stuff mix. Reduced the root mass by about 2/3s. Might end up cutting down it's original pot, Doesn't quite fit in this 13.5" training pot lol

I think that pot will be fine… you would want to carefully take away the soil at the base until you get roots flaring all around and make judicious cuts.. totally soak it and get it wet and completely bare root it .. you’ll be able to see roots / base structure that may need pruning .. as above so below

 

[Scrogdor]

Decided to comb most of the oil soil, rinsed it out pretty good created a heavy akadama mix. Probably about a 70% root reduction. Had some long thick roots that I had to reduce quite a bit. I’ll let her sort things out in this pot for a year and then I’ll do some further root work. Not great lighting but she looks good. Not too bad going from a 10 gallon pot.

 

[Scrogdor]

Need some help developing this tree from here. Here are some angles with numbers. Also can’t decide how much or if to shorten that last section. Kinda digging the 1 &2 , 4 & 5 fronts, but also looks like there is potential in the 8, 9 & 10.

 

[Wood]

I personally like 10. Both trunks leaning toward the viewer, no large cuts or scars on that side, branches in good usable positions. It even doesn't have many branches blocking the trunk that need to be moved

 

[ForrestW]

I agree with wood-- I am not a fan of all the visual weight moving to the back 10 is my favorite.

 

[Scrogdor]

More I look at this tree, more the big heavy branch bothers me. It's got inverse taper from a couple angles and I wish it went out away from the tree a little more than up and in. Still itching to cut it back shorter and wire one of the branches coming out of it out and up rather than up and in. Haven't chopped it yet because there is no going back but definitely thinking about it.

 

[Scrogdor]

Small update, didn’t have a lot of time to do bonsai last year, all I did to this tree was perform the trunk chop at the top. I haven’t really done much carving on this tree either. Not sure how to deal with those scars and the one area near the base. Considering a larger carving job, I just can’t find any inspiration on how to carve it to make it look natural. Do I try to carve a hollow there? How much do I take away/leave?

I think I’m okay with the height of the tree, but could always chop lower later.

 

[Scrogdor]

is this a bad idea?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

is this a bad idea?

Are you ok with a scar there forever? These just don’t heal well, especially in a pot.

 

[misfit11]

is this a bad idea?

I don't see the reason to. You've got decent movement and taper as it is. Do you just want a shorter tree?

 

[River's Edge]

is this a bad idea?

I can see why you are considering that move. However, how about looking at changing the planting angle as part of the solution. The tree has a number of scars needing time and skill to improve. I just picked up on this thread and found myself wanting to find a better trunk line early on in the thread. The last section built seems to carry on to far and straight so I can see why you might want to shorten it. In a case like this it might be best to make a number of smaller changes. Planting angle/ less of a chop ( smaller scar) combined with a thread graft for optimum branch placement. Caveat here I have not worked with American hornbeam. But have had no difficulty with thread grafts on other hornbeams.
You may wish to consider slower pace to the development to allow for longer periods of grow out and subsequently better healing of scars.
Just a few thoughts to add into the mix. @ Van Fleet and @ Wood have highlighted a key consideration.

 

[Scrogdor]

All good points thank you! Another idea I had would be to approach the front from this angle and turn that large first heavy branch into a hollow if you can picture it.

 

[River's Edge]

All good points thank you! Another idea I had would be to approach the front from this angle and turn that large first heavy branch into a hollow if you can picture it.

I can picture it, Not a fan of " hollows " . I am old school where creating a hollow results from poor development or disease that went unchecked in field grown stock. I understand it in species that are difficult to grow out without common issues such as Mume. the main reason why they are a species with a lot of carving on the trunk. That should not be necessary with Hornbeam. That being said.
Lots of people use that approach to fix problems.

 

[Scrogdor]

I can picture it, Not a fan of " hollows " . I am old school where creating a hollow results from poor development or disease that went unchecked in field grown stock. I understand it in species that are difficult to grow out without common issues such as Mume. the main reason why they are a species with a lot of carving on the trunk. That should not be necessary with Hornbeam. That being said.
Lots of people use that approach to fix problems.

That's understandable, this tree definitely went unchecked as a field grown specimen for a while, hence the already big holes it has. However, I do like the style incorporating uro in bonsai. I have a yamadori north american hornbeam that has 2 or 3 natural "hollows", so they do occur in the wild.

 

[River's Edge]

That's understandable, this tree definitely went unchecked as a field grown specimen for a while, hence the already big holes it has. However, I do like the style incorporating uro in bonsai. I have a yamadori north american hornbeam that has 2 or 3 natural "hollows", so they do occur in the wild.

They sure do. Lots of diseased and damaged trees in the wild. I just do not normally consider them as collectable or desirable. Unless of course the shari and jin are outstanding. Bit that is different from trees that have rotted out inside or have active infestations or infections present.
Have you considered filling the cavities with epoxy and healing over the problem areas?
It is ok if we differ on this point of view. But for the record, I do not think that everything that occurs naturally is aesthetically appropriate for Bonsai.

 

[Gran_Puma]

I also seem to recall a thread by OP about moving to California from the east coast. There's value in familiarity, not in the sense that cultivation will be easier, since it's an unfamiliar climate, but for the sentimental value of plants that remind people of home.

 

[Gabler]

Is there a reason you quoted my post?