Hello from Michigan!

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Sapling
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Hello everyone,

I am new here and live in southeast Michigan. I have been contemplating keeping bonsai for years since I have fond memories of my grandpa keeping them (along with many other plants) as a child. At times like this in my old(er) age, I wish I would have learned a couple more things from him, but I digress. Anyway, I am getting some "starter" trees very soon. Some are currently dormant and will be kept in an unheated garage until probably early April once the spring weather really hits and some will be sent to me in a few weeks time, as they are not currently fully dormant and coming from California. The larger seedlings will be lightly pruned and repotted before placing outside in an appropriate area.

I have read a book on the subject, The Art Of Bonsai by Yuji Yoshimura and Giovanna M. Halford. It seems a little old school, but has some good tips. I am also planning on attending an upcoming meeting for a local bonsai club at the end of this month, but have some burning questions before I order potting media and plan my routine.

First off, I know the topic of soil mixes can be controversial and each person has their own way of doing things. I plan on using some organic and inorganinc materials and repot as needed. I am just looking for confirmation that I am generally on the right path. I have included things like akadama as a structural component, although it may fall under the "clay" category, but this is just a general outline. Here is how I plan on mixing the components:

Organics:
50% peat moss, 50% extra small pine bark

Structural:

Deciduous Mix:
1/3 turface, 1/3 medium decomposted granite, 1/3 medium akadama

Conifer Mix:
1/3 turface, 1/3 medium decomposted granite, 1/3 medium kanuma


I will place a layer of granite on bottom of pot. For deciduous I will use use 60% organic material and 40% structural deciduous mix. For conifer I will use 30% organic and 70% structural conifer mix. I will then top with a very thin layer of topsoil and lightly sprinkle with moss spores.

Aside from the soil mix, I would like to bring up the topic of water. I have a saltwater aquarium and have a good reverse osmosis system, which totally removes any and all impurities in the water. If I recall correctly, the TDS (total dissolved solids) meter is at about 76 from the tap and at zero coming out with no chlorine or any other impurities present. However, this water should not be used directly for living things, as it is void of any minerals and will leach them out quickly. I am thinking that I could use half tap water that has sat out for at least a day mixed with half the water from the reverse osmosis system. This would reduce the amount of dissolved solids and impurities, but also have some trace minerals still in it. I would also use straight reverse osmosis water for any foliage misting.

I know I said a lot for my first post, but does this sound like a good starting point, or could I adjust it a bit further to better suit the plants?

Thank you
 
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Depending on your personal schedule a less organic or total inorganic might be something to consider. RO water works fine, you should be controlling nutrients with fertilizer. Just my opinion but welcome to B-Nut and your Journey!

Grimmy
 
You can use pure RO water on your plants. You can drink it too, it's a myth that it will suck he minerals out of things.
 
Alright, thanks for that. I just know what is advised for water quality and aquarium keeping. I used RO for freshwater too, but also used a product to add trace minerals back into it before aquarium use. This is helpful information concerning bonsai. So straight RO and then lightly fertilize with half strength liquid during the growing season will be my plan. Sound about right?

Alos Grimlore, concerning watering schedule. I plan on keeping a regular routine on usually checking them daily and watering as necessary, depending on the plant, maybe every other or 3rd day or even daily as needed. There will be occasions when I may go out of town over a weekend so daily all the time may not work.

My other concern is bonsai in very small pots for seedlings. I want to try my hand at sprouting some seeds as well as attaining seedlings. For those that will be in pots that fit in the palm of the hand to start, what is a good method of protecting against pot tipping from a stray gust of wind? The area I plan to keep them is somewhat sheltered from this, but it could happen with them being outdoors.
 
Alright, thanks for that. I just know what is advised for water quality and aquarium keeping. I used RO for freshwater too, but also used a product to add trace minerals back into it before aquarium use. This is helpful information concerning bonsai. So straight RO and then lightly fertilize with half strength liquid during the growing season will be my plan. Sound about right?

I was able to use RO for awhile at our old house BUT also being we use mostly total inorganic I use many times the recommended dose of fertilizer.

Alos Grimlore, concerning watering schedule. I plan on keeping a regular routine on usually checking them daily and watering as necessary, depending on the plant, maybe every other or 3rd day or even daily as needed. There will be occasions when I may go out of town over a weekend so daily all the time may not work.

If you have the time or auto water you have a lot of options. We prefer the above inorganic method, mass fertilizer(no RO here at the new place) with auto watering as it allows us to travel some and not be there or "trust" somebody to take care of things.

My other concern is bonsai in very small pots for seedlings. I want to try my hand at sprouting some seeds as well as attaining seedlings. For those that will be in pots that fit in the palm of the hand to start, what is a good method of protecting against pot tipping from a stray gust of wind? The area I plan to keep them is somewhat sheltered from this, but it could happen with them being outdoors.

We use plastic trays and inexpensive 2 or 3 inch containers from the local farm/feed supply places. Same as many Greenhouse growers. The pots fit against each other and are less prone to being swept away by the wind. Less prone is not windproof but works 95 percent of the season fine. When the winds are "off the hook" we either put the trays in the shed(s). I have also made some simple 8 inch pine open top and bottom frames for framing them when we are away.

PLEASE keep in mind these are things that work for US. What works for you will greatly depend on your lifestyle and time you actually have.

Grimmy
 
I think mixing that much organic material with the inorganic really defeats the purposes of using those components. Peat holds a lot of moisture, probably too much. And if you let it dry out it can be hydrophobic. The water will just run around the peat instead of soaking in. If you want more water retention mix in just pine bark or increase the percentage of akadama. Also putting chopped sphagnum moss on the top soil can help retain some moisture.
Another thought. Kanuma is usually just used for azaleas. Just use akadama for that portion of the mix.
 
Thanks for the great information so far!

I think mixing that much organic material with the inorganic really defeats the purposes of using those components. Peat holds a lot of moisture, probably too much. And if you let it dry out it can be hydrophobic. The water will just run around the peat instead of soaking in. If you want more water retention mix in just pine bark or increase the percentage of akadama. Also putting chopped sphagnum moss on the top soil can help retain some moisture.
Another thought. Kanuma is usually just used for azaleas. Just use akadama for that portion of the mix.

Good catch, I meant Kureyu, as I saw this mentioned on other websites for conifers, but cannot find much information on it or how to obtain it. Maybe I will just use coarse sand for that portion, as I know conifers like less moisture than other bonsai and akadama will add more moisture and can break down over time, so maybe it's not ideal for slow growers that need less repotting?
 
Welcome aboard. Sounds like you and I have some things in common, I also live in SE Michigan (Royal Oak) and I am very much into fish keeping/aquariums as well (Cichlids here).

If you haven't been there ya take a ride to Tellys Greenhouse in Troy sometime, they are one of the better Bonsai greenhouses in this area and have a decent amount of tree's as well as supplies to offer. They also have Bonsai classes as well.

Steve
 
Hello from another (temporary) SE MI'er down in Ypsi
 
Welcome aboard. Sounds like you and I have some things in common, I also live in SE Michigan (Royal Oak) and I am very much into fish keeping/aquariums as well (Cichlids here).

If you haven't been there ya take a ride to Tellys Greenhouse in Troy sometime, they are one of the better Bonsai greenhouses in this area and have a decent amount of tree's as well as supplies to offer. They also have Bonsai classes as well.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I have a little bit of everything, fish, reptiles, a bird, dogs, plants, a finacee...lol. Cichlids are interesting fish. If I were to do fresh again, I would do either cichlids or discus. I go to Royal Oak often, as I currently live in Southfield. The bonsai club I referred to in my original post is the Four Seasons Bonsai Club and they meet at Tellys once a month. I plan on sitting in on the one this month on the 30th. I emailed Michael of Four Seasons and he replied promptly and suggested I attend even though I am not a current member. I'm glad there are resources so close to me and that I found this online community. I'm sure I will learn a lot this next year and beyond!

Hello from another (temporary) SE MI'er down in Ypsi
Nice, I was born in Ypsi at St Joseph Mercy!
 
Welcome to B-Nut from the great white north! (Northern Michigan that is)
 
I think mixing that much organic material with the inorganic really defeats the purposes of using those components. Peat holds a lot of moisture, probably too much. And if you let it dry out it can be hydrophobic. The water will just run around the peat instead of soaking in. If you want more water retention mix in just pine bark or increase the percentage of akadama. Also putting chopped sphagnum moss on the top soil can help retain some moisture.
Another thought. Kanuma is usually just used for azaleas. Just use akadama for that portion of the mix.

I'm not sure where you are going to get Akadama but lose the Peat for at least 3 reasons. First; Peat is dangerous to handle. It contains a Fungus that can take hold in your lungs and reward you with a fatal disease. There have been a few bonsai growers die form this. Second; when it is wet it is really wet, third; when it is dry it is really dry and almost impossible to moisten. It will actually repel water that does not sit on it. The last thing in the world you want to do is produce a soil mix that holds water. It is far better to water frequently than to have to guess when to water because of some element in your soil mix.
 
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Thanks for pointing out the issues with peat. I saw that composted pine bark is a good organic potting medium but have searched online with no luck whatsoever. Anyone know where I could buy some? I guess I could just buy pine bark and compost it myself, but it would not be ready to use this season. My thinking was that if I mix half peat and half small pine bark, it would be an alternative to composted pine bark. I do want the organic part of the mix to retain some water, as there will be times that daily watering will not be possible.
 
Thanks for pointing out the issues with peat. I saw that composted pine bark is a good organic potting medium but have searched online with no luck whatsoever. Anyone know where I could buy some? I guess I could just buy pine bark and compost it myself, but it would not be ready to use this season. My thinking was that if I mix half peat and half small pine bark, it would be an alternative to composted pine bark. I do want the organic part of the mix to retain some water, as there will be times that daily watering will not be possible.

That's one reason to utilize Pine Bark mulch. You can get it at English Gardens sold as Composted Garden Mulch. Much like a bowl of cereal you should read the label. I think it is also available in other sources but that was an off the top of my header. Telly's Nursery and Green House in Sterling Heights has it as well under a different name. This is where we have our bonsai meetings and show. Last Sunday of the Month.
 
That's one reason to utilize Pine Bark mulch. You can get it at English Gardens sold as Composted Garden Mulch. Much like a bowl of cereal you should read the label. I think it is also available in other sources but that was an off the top of my header. Telly's Nursery and Green House in Sterling Heights has it as well under a different name. This is where we have our bonsai meetings and show. Last Sunday of the Month.

Sweet, I am going to take a trip out there on the 30th to sit in on the meeting and learn a few things! I also just found it at Kalamazoo Landscape Supply, but that is a bit of a drive for me. I will call Telly's and stop by sooner to pick up a bag or two, as I would like to start my mix for the upcoming spring. Will you be at the upcoming Four Seasons meeting? It would be nice to meet some of the people on this forum in person. I just realized that I didn't give a whole lot of information within my introduction, but my name is Phil.

EDIT: I just called Tellys and they have it available listed as Aged Pine Bark. I have already learned a lot on this forum and will tweak my soil mix as necessary. You guys are great! Thank you
 
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Sweet, I am going to take a trip out there on the 30th to sit in on the meeting and learn a few things! I also just found it at Kalamazoo Landscape Supply, but that is a bit of a drive for me. I will call Telly's and stop by sooner to pick up a bag or two, as I would like to start my mix for the upcoming spring. Will you be at the upcoming Four Seasons meeting? It would be nice to meet some of the people on this forum in person. I just realized that I didn't give a whole lot of information within my introduction, but my name is Phil.

EDIT: I just called Tellys and they have it available listed as Aged Pine Bark. I have already learned a lot on this forum and will tweak my soil mix as necessary. You guys are great! Thank you

I'll be there, little fat bald guys that thinks he's funny.
 
Personally I use composted pine bark mulch in everything I grow for Bonsai, its great for deciduos, evergreen and all tropicals too.

ed
 
Personally I use composted pine bark mulch in everything I grow for Bonsai, its great for deciduos, evergreen and all tropicals too.

ed

Careful; someone may accuse you of believing the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Moon is made of Green cheese and you can make your odometer run backward by driving your car in reverse.
 
Careful; someone may accuse you of believing the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth and that the Moon is made of Green cheese and you can make your odometer run backward by driving your car in reverse.

lol, funny. I was almost expecting some resistance from some of the people in the "no organics" camp, but am glad I received solid and useful advice.
 
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