Help me , I have a Hornbeam Problem!😱

[Shogun610]

Same here, twice already and I see a third coming. I guess that’s why I have read that the ramification can happen fairly quick because they push growth until fall.

My main objective is to build branches up and also directional pruning , I’m not so keen on wiring deciduous unless it’s a branch or two. Not so concerned with ramification, more so concerned with building the branches up but making sure that there is a good transition from the trunk and outwards, so I cut back to kore interior shoots to rebuild.

 

[Shogun610]

Shawty lookin hot

 

[BobbyLane]

My main objective is to build branches up and also directional pruning , I’m not so keen on wiring deciduous unless it’s a branch or two. Not so concerned with ramification, more so concerned with building the branches up but making sure that there is a good transition from the trunk and outwards, so I cut back to kore interior shoots to rebuild.

I wouldnt keep pruning, i would let these branches run for a bit now to allow thickening, they've quite some catching up to do to be in line with the trunk. if you want branches to thicken quickly, dont cut the terminal buds in the early stages of branch building, and wire them up towards the light.

 

[Shogun610]

I wouldnt keep pruning, i would let these branches run for a bit now to allow thickening, they've quite some catching up to do to be in line with the trunk. if you want branches to thicken quickly, dont cut the terminal buds in the early stages of branch building, and wire them up towards the light.

Noted , wasn’t planning on it. I just get so afraid of no light or interior branches or buds

 

[BobbyLane]

Noted , wasn’t planning on it. I just get so afraid of no light or interior branches or buds

this is kinda far from that point though. seen my big belly hornbeam thread, how bushy I let it get before cutting on a couple occasions, and partially defoliating it to let light in. your tree needs to build up some vigour, it doesnt look very strong at this point. it has a powerful base and muscle trunk, the branches have a long way to go to match that image. see how bushy Mach lets his hornbeam get? and its way further ahead than yours, take note. since its a collected tree, allow it to grow out and build up some root power. organic feed and generous watering.

 

[Shogun610]

this is kinda far from that point though. seen my big belly hornbeam thread, how bushy I let it get before cutting on a couple occasions, and partially defoliating it to let light in. your tree needs to build up some vigour, it doesnt look very strong at this point. it has a powerful base and muscle trunk, the branches have a long way to go to match that image. see how bushy Mach lets his hornbeam get? and its way further ahead than yours, take note. since its a collected tree, allow it to grow out and build up some root power. organic feed and generous watering.

Thanks I will work on building the branches up

 

[Deleted member 32750]

I would focus on finishing the trunk line and apex before you even think about thickening branches.

 

[Shogun610]

I would focus on finishing the trunk line and apex before you even think about thickening branches.

Yes thickening the branches and letting the taper/apex develop is what I meant

 

[Shogun610]

I just was trimming back to reset the branching when I first got it and since it got damaged from the frost earlier in spring .. my plan is to grow the apex and branches and not trim back.

 

[Shogun610]

Bonsai Development Series #27: Focusing growth on the lowest primary branches - Bonsai Tonight

After growing a trunk to the desired size, the next step is creating primary branches. And the bigger the trunk, the bigger we can expect these branches to be.

bonsaitonight.com

 

[berzerkules]

I also have a hornbeam problem. They don't grow up here. I love hornbeam trunks. One day...

 

[penumbra]

I wouldnt keep pruning, i would let these branches run for a bit now to allow thickening, they've quite some catching up to do to be in line with the trunk. if you want branches to thicken quickly, dont cut the terminal buds in the early stages of branch building, and wire them up towards the light.

Noted , wasn’t planning on it. I just get so afraid of no light or interior branches or buds

I agree you should hold off pruning now and let it run. Lack of interior light should not be a concern for hornbeam unless it is in shade most of the time. If it even gets a couple hours of sun it should be fine.

 

[Deleted member 32750]

Bonsai Development Series #27: Focusing growth on the lowest primary branches - Bonsai Tonight

After growing a trunk to the desired size, the next step is creating primary branches. And the bigger the trunk, the bigger we can expect these branches to be.

bonsaitonight.com

Notice the first statement of the article: ‘After the trunk is grown to the desired size.

You still have a long way to go for your trunk to be finished. If you start trying to thicken branches now by letting them elongate and wiring them towards the light they will be out of proportion to the final design.

let everything flush out in the spring once growth hardens off in mid/late spring you can do directional pruning on your branches. Let your terminal buds elongate to build transition of taper in your trunk. Right now you have no transition of taper at all in your trunk. That should be priority #1 before you consider doing any branch thickening.

 

[penumbra]

let everything flush out in the spring once growth hardens off in mid/late spring you can do directional pruning on your branches. Let your terminal buds elongate to build transition of taper in your trunk. Right now you have no transition of taper at all in your trunk. That should be priority #1 before you consider doing any branch thickening.

I agree with most of this but I think thickening lower branches will also help put some girth on the trunk.

 

[BobbyLane]

Notice the first statement of the article: ‘After the trunk is grown to the desired size.

You still have a long way to go for your trunk to be finished. If you start trying to thicken branches now by letting them elongate and wiring them towards the light they will be out of proportion to the final design.

let everything flush out in the spring once growth hardens off in mid/late spring you can do directional pruning on your branches. Let your terminal buds elongate to build transition of taper in your trunk. Right now you have no transition of taper at all in your trunk. That should be priority #1 before you consider doing any branch thickening.

By letting them thicken how will they be out of proportion. the thicker the better. doesnt matter much about the apex, these trees are apically dominant, the leader will thicken and transition regardless of whats going on underneath. the key here is to allow the lower branches to become stronger than the middle and upper branches, then allow the mid branches to be stronger than the ones in the crown. by wiring everything up n out, as the tree becomes denser it allows light to penetrate the whole tree.
he isnt building a trunk, the trunk is already there, the nebari is already there.

 

[BobbyLane]

I agree with most of this but I think thickening lower branches will also help put some girth on the trunk.

of course. by balancing the vigour throughout the tree, transitions and trunk taper occurs naturally in time. thats just standard deciduous pruning isnt it. basic stuff. Graham potter goes over this in a video i shared somewhere.
OP is actually doing this. but he's cutting too soon and these branches need girth.

 

[Deleted member 32750]

Increase in trunk girth by elongating low branches is negligible compared to elongating apical shoots. That is well documented bonsai practice by professionals and here on Bnut
in most instances the only outcome of branch elongation is thickening of the branch itself.

Vigor in trees is balanced by foliar density not elongating of branches. Look at the tree. The lowest branch already has the most foliar mass.

Thickening of branches occurs naturally over time, but thats just basic tree physiology isnt it?

I suggest you think about what kind of tree you want first before you start thickening branches. If you want a tater, then sure you can start thickening branches but if you want a deciduous bonsai tree with natural taper then I recommend focusing on the trunk line.
Your trunk line looks like it goes from 2 inch caliber to a quarter of an inch at the top. Thats an incredibly abrupt change. Nebari is there but trunk line is not there. It looks like a stump not a bonsai.

 

[BobbyLane]

Increase in trunk girth by elongating low branches is negligible compared to elongating apical shoots. That is well documented bonsai practice by professionals and here on Bnut
in most instances the only outcome of branch elongation is thickening of the branch itself.

Vigor in trees is balanced by foliar density not elongating of branches. Look at the tree. The lowest branch already has the most foliar mass.

Thickening of branches occurs naturally over time, but thats just basic tree physiology isnt it?

I suggest you think about what kind of tree you want first before you start thickening branches. If you want a tater, then sure you can start thickening branches but if you want a deciduous bonsai tree with natural taper then I recommend focusing on the trunk line.
Your trunk line looks like it goes from 2 inch caliber to a quarter of an inch at the top. Thats an incredibly abrupt change. Nebari is there but trunk line is not there. It looks like a stump not a bonsai.

do you have an example of one you did so the OP has a better understanding?

its pretty clear he wants a tree with a clear definitive trunk line, hence his leader. hench his branch placement. he isnt going to get much trunk thickening in this pot. you keep going on about trunk thickening, but you havnt actually suggested a larger container.

Increase in trunk girth by elongating low branches is negligible compared to elongating apical shoots

I doubt he'll get much trunk thickening in this pot by letting apical shoots run. but what he will get is a thicker leader/apical branch and a better transition from trunk to leader.

leaders grow fast on carps, theyre apically dominant as with most deciduous trees!!

 

[Deleted member 32750]

Im not suggesting trunk thickening at all. that was in response to the comment above about letting low branches elongate to add girth to the trunk.

OP the only thing you need to focus on right now is building transition of taper in your primary trunk line.

 

[BobbyLane]

growing out a leader on a deciduous tree doesnt mean progress comes to a halt everywhere else. he can forget about his leader until its time to cut it, when its thick enough, but in the mean time he can work on his branch structure. he can begin early movement at the base of his branches, wire the tips up for faster development, and continue to balance the trees vigour by letting lower n mids build up strength and girth.
this is standard stuff.
im done here. feel im repeating myself.

ps the leader is the easiest part to grow on a tree. it doesnt require a great deal of skill, you just let it go, and it thickens quickly because its the highest point of the tree.