drew33998
Masterpiece
Here you go. Enjoy.
help! osmocote questions!!
- Thread starter benw3790
- Start date
WOOB
Sapling
Fertilization of trees I AM NOT AN EXPERT …
Organics is the only way to go on trees/bonsai were you want to start ramifying the branches. Not growing them for size or growing the trunk.
Ozmercote is a time released fertilizer based on temperature and amount of water. So if your growing in a fast draining bonsai soil your watering every day and you going to break down the Ozmercoat very fast. I do use it or similar on pre pre bonsai in the growing bed (it’s a fast easy way). I want the tree to grow fast and I go back latter and create the branches on the trunk. The reality all I care about is trunk size.
My close to finished trees I only use organic! UNLES of course there is always an … in bonsai. If I want to give a tree a boost before it is warm for the organic to work. Then I am a miracle grow person ¼ strength.
I think you need to judge the tree what you goals are for that trees and then pick what might work the best.
I made 2,500 hundred tea bags this year YES I know I have issues along with the tea I brew and the foliar … and my ozermercoat and miracle grow
Organics is the only way to go on trees/bonsai were you want to start ramifying the branches. Not growing them for size or growing the trunk.
Ozmercote is a time released fertilizer based on temperature and amount of water. So if your growing in a fast draining bonsai soil your watering every day and you going to break down the Ozmercoat very fast. I do use it or similar on pre pre bonsai in the growing bed (it’s a fast easy way). I want the tree to grow fast and I go back latter and create the branches on the trunk. The reality all I care about is trunk size.
My close to finished trees I only use organic! UNLES of course there is always an … in bonsai. If I want to give a tree a boost before it is warm for the organic to work. Then I am a miracle grow person ¼ strength.
I think you need to judge the tree what you goals are for that trees and then pick what might work the best.
I made 2,500 hundred tea bags this year YES I know I have issues along with the tea I brew and the foliar … and my ozermercoat and miracle grow
WOOB
Sapling
Is this relevant to bonsai and the soil we use?
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I use 5 grams/per container. My containers are roughly 1 to 1 1/2 gallon.
This is roughly comparable to the 1/4 teaspoon previously mentioned. in addition i use an organic mix in tea bags. Two tablespoons per tea bag, four bags per container. liquid fish fertilizer once per month during growing season. inorganic substrate ( Akadama,Lava,Pumice, Granite Grit)
This is for young developing trees that I am looking for maximum growth and it is coupled with lots of water. Never had a burning issue. The brand i use is 14/14/14 NPK plus and the manufacturer claims it is good for 5-7 months. It is reported to be slow release and temperature controlled.
This process has worked well with JBP,JRP, Trident,Zelkova,other assorted conifers.
For tree's in refinement i use only the organic and liquid fish fertilizer. This is because there are fewer tree's in that stage and i wish more control over the use of fertilizer. As in ease of removal for timing purposes.
SU2
Omono
I feel like this is totally not the case but don't know enough to refute it properly....
I was initially swayed into Osmocote because it seemed the 'longest-lasting' however in the past days I've begun to have 2nd-thoughts if it's the one for me- it says "each pellet is coated" w/ their extended-release polymer, coated isn't ideal it's better for the polymer to be disbursed throughout the pellets so that it's as linear of a release as possible, am guessing this is a superficial concern but if I found an equivalent product that I knew was mixing the polymer throughout I'd be more interested than in something that just had the polymer coating the exterior (that's technically a "delayed release" product, not extended release, and the latter is what I'm seeing! Surely osmocote is 90%+ as good as anything w/ its specs could be, regardless of polymer-blending techs, but would still switch if I knew another product that could showed better consistency of release since that's the whole point here ;D )
I think foliar is 100.0% unnecessary so long as you're talking about regular, healthy, growing trees. It's useful for a speedier fix of an iron chlorosis problem but, if your roots are performing as healthy roots should, you do not get an added bonus by fertilizing the leaves (I used to think you may have, there's a thread somewhere on this site of people explaining to me why it's not the case!)
Tea, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have support but I'm still of the mindset that, if any system will benefit, it's one w/ mostly/entirely inorganic substrate ie bonsai/hydroponics/etc, I have a rain-barrel setup that I've considered turning into a compost-tea unit as well, ie just add the 'seeding' materials and keep a pump/timer in the barrel, with our substrates I think we'd benefit most from extra microbes and they make LOTS of difference in how much nutes a root system can up-take!
[edited-to-add: I also use MG instant-release, I used to use it exclusively and just this month have switched to Osmocote 15-9-12 being my 'primary', I applied it pretty heavily and now plan to just do small ~4% nitro miracle-gro applications every 5-10 days as conditions dictate! I think the continuous availability of nutes to roots is incredibly important and don't know why I waited so long to get an always-there fertilizer in my garden!]
WOOB
Sapling
The foliar ... REMEMBER junipers get a lot from the foliage and the opposite pins from there roots.
Teas do not last more the a day or so and must be oxygenated or the spoil.
I encourage you to get away from the fertilizer that are inorganic unless you looking to fatten a trunk or the like. Its about slow steady growth over years that in the end make that a special tree.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Personally use 20-20-20 H2O soluble fertilizer weekly. Two times a week while developing back buds on Pines latter season. Works great does not burn. Ozmocote looks like slug eggs or green BBs on soil
. Almost as unsightly as stinking crap on soil which attracts pests and detracts from tree with unattractiveness and smell
.
. Almost as unsightly as stinking crap on soil which attracts pests and detracts from tree with unattractiveness and smell.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Heavily Chem Ferted soils have an abundance of ......
The Building blocks of life....
Algae!
So BS to "kills all life".
Fk Osmocote.
Not yet?
Wait for it...
Wait for it....
You'll feel the same after it Fks you!
A little is not enough...
A lot is too much....
And no matter which you can't never tell when it might work...
If we think about why "time-released" fert was invented in the first place....
Laziness is the only reason....
"Can't go back out to fertilize in x amount of time.."
X...stupid and lazy!
This is not a sport for the stupid or lazy.
Why stupid? Why so harsh?
No balls.
Balls.
Where's your Mycoriza Now?
Dead.
Roots?
Dead.
Assmocote!
Sorce
The Building blocks of life....
Algae!
So BS to "kills all life".
Fk Osmocote.
Not yet?
Wait for it...
Wait for it....
You'll feel the same after it Fks you!
A little is not enough...
A lot is too much....
And no matter which you can't never tell when it might work...
If we think about why "time-released" fert was invented in the first place....
Laziness is the only reason....
"Can't go back out to fertilize in x amount of time.."
X...stupid and lazy!
This is not a sport for the stupid or lazy.
Why stupid? Why so harsh?
No balls.
Balls.
Where's your Mycoriza Now?
Dead.
Roots?
Dead.
Assmocote!
Sorce
WOOB
Sapling
I do to at 1/4 to half strength. I feel it works well as it is getting cold here for organics to work. EXCELLENT POINT and practices you use ....Personally use 20-20-20 H2O soluble fertilizer weekly. Two times a week while developing back buds on Pines latter season. Works great does not burn. Ozmocote looks like slug eggs or green BBs on soil
SU2
Omono
I've only recently gotten my first two junipers and am not up on coniferous stuff- are you saying that a juniper that's actively growing & healthy will get more nutes if you did foliar sprays? Was led to believe otherwise, if you have any threads/articles/sources to confirm that I'd be very interested to learn more!
As I'd mentioned I would have a pump so spoiling wouldn't be an issue, as to "teas do not last more than a day or so and", did you mean "unless" instead of "and"? If you didn't, can you tell me why a tea would only last a day once applied?
I've NEVER seen anything that supports this line of reasoning (inorganic/organic nutes having as varied effects as you're implying here)
You say "unless you looking to fatten a trunk or the like", 'the like' would naturally include the development of your first couple rounds of primaries ie the first few rounds of hard-prunes to newly-collected, in-development stock (which is most of what I have right now, check my signature for examples), so yes for this time-period I'd want to 'fatten the trunk or the like', my collection isn't comprised of purchased, finished bonsai which is what you seem to be talking about here (though even in that case I don't know there's a shred of evidence to support what you seem to be saying ie that the natural/synthetic fert difference is of significant value)
SU2
Omono
Personally use 20-20-20 H2O soluble fertilizer weekly. Two times a week while developing back buds on Pines latter season. Works great does not burn. Ozmocote looks like slug eggs or green BBs on soil
LOL you could always just put a 1/8" layer of substrate over it, or work it in a bit, am unsure what you use for substrate but I've had no problems w/ the aesthetics I guess it's a personal thing (mine are not green tho they're yellow, I could see green sticking-out more!)
20-20-20 weekly sounds hefty (and good for developing stuff), unsure how often you water in OR but if I only did weekly apps here of an instant-release, when I'm watering 2-3x daily, it's hard to think there'd be much of anything left on day 6 right before the next fertilization, that's why I've started w/ the osmocote (I was using just instant-release MG 24-8-16, but splitting it to where I was doing a partial-application every third day, but even then w/ 3x waterings that's 9 plain-waterings between each fertilization and when a substrate's overall CEC is incredibly low like most bonsai mixes are there's no decent holding-capacity, nutrient availability is important and just doing once monthly at a huge dose isn't remotely as good as doing a lighter overall dosage that's applied more frequently....the best solution IMO is to have, at least in-part, your fertilizer be extended-release)
Agree on the stinky organics attracting pests, I use Biotone's "GardenTone" on some specimen because it's full of microbial innoculants so I'll mix it into the substrate when re-potting something but have learned to never just top-dress the stuff, instant smell & pest problems!
SU2
Omono
Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here but, if it's "getting too-cold for organics to work" doesn't that basically mean it's getting too cold to need fertilizer anymore that season?
SU2
Omono
Sorce, you post the most charming non-sense that makes sense ;D
Too much fertilizer is a problem just like too-little is...What's your fertilizer regimen now? Do you have pics of the canopy of that tree for the before/after?
That's a pretty broad stroke you're making there, I don't use osmocote because I'm lazy (stupid perhaps, but not lazy ;D ), I use it because it was becoming a PITA doing a 3-day fertilizer rotation and, after a few re-reads of the wiki page 'plant nutrition', I'm convinced that always-available nutrition > high-dose, infrequent nutrition, and the only way to achieve that is either to do instant-release like every day or two, or use something that's got an extended-release profile (not delayed release, like osmocote....if anyone in this thread knows other timed-release synthetic ferts that are truly "extended" release and not delayed-release, I'd love to know!)
Would a lazy person prefer a 'one and done' fertilizer? Of course, but that's not the only valid reasoning for using them!
Did the tree die? Pic #2, w/o the myco, has foliage showing that looks just fine...it also looks like you used quite the dosage of osmocote on soil, or a soil+epiphyte mix, not a rapid-drain bonsai mix - am very very interested in knowing the substrate and the tree's condition through that period, really would appreciate any details you can share on it!
Too much fertilizer is a problem just like too-little is...What's your fertilizer regimen now? Do you have pics of the canopy of that tree for the before/after?
That's a pretty broad stroke you're making there, I don't use osmocote because I'm lazy (stupid perhaps, but not lazy ;D ), I use it because it was becoming a PITA doing a 3-day fertilizer rotation and, after a few re-reads of the wiki page 'plant nutrition', I'm convinced that always-available nutrition > high-dose, infrequent nutrition, and the only way to achieve that is either to do instant-release like every day or two, or use something that's got an extended-release profile (not delayed release, like osmocote....if anyone in this thread knows other timed-release synthetic ferts that are truly "extended" release and not delayed-release, I'd love to know!)
Would a lazy person prefer a 'one and done' fertilizer? Of course, but that's not the only valid reasoning for using them!
Did the tree die? Pic #2, w/o the myco, has foliage showing that looks just fine...it also looks like you used quite the dosage of osmocote on soil, or a soil+epiphyte mix, not a rapid-drain bonsai mix - am very very interested in knowing the substrate and the tree's condition through that period, really would appreciate any details you can share on it!
SU2
Omono
I know they need certain threshold temps but that wasn't my point, what I was trying to get across was that, if it's too-cold for them to break-down then it's not growing-season any longer so there's nothing to be worrying about as you don't need fertilizer for a non-growing/dormant tree...am I missing something here?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Bro! I'm not calling you lazy!
But laziness must have been the reason for its invention...that or money...either way...not a motive I appreciate.
Your thinking! I appreciate loads!
That Mugo is doing better than the one I hacked too much top off of.
Its old needles were greyish for a while...
Side by side from a couple days ago.
Note the needle size!
Been Fishing at least once a day...
Mostly twice a day recently.
Note the needle size has little to do with fertilizer!
Sorce
But laziness must have been the reason for its invention...that or money...either way...not a motive I appreciate.
Your thinking! I appreciate loads!
That Mugo is doing better than the one I hacked too much top off of.
Its old needles were greyish for a while...
Side by side from a couple days ago.
Note the needle size!
Been Fishing at least once a day...
Mostly twice a day recently.
Note the needle size has little to do with fertilizer!
Sorce
WOOB
Sapling
WOOB
Sapling
My reference to the "tea" was oxygenation not just moving it. Depending on the soil you use nutrients only stay in it for a short period since we water most days they are washed out. I have the best feed weeds in NJ!
As far as my evidence I don't know I guess what I have seen works and what doesn't. My gentleman near me said come over and look I was amazed at his growth on his trees. I SWITCHED TO 1/3 pumas 1/3 acadoma 1/3 lava but now I soften my soil for my Maples and Elm's Its what works for me. I guess my support is in my trees that ... yes I have had more of my shares of disasters! One of my larches the first picture is 5 - 2015 the second is 6 - 2018.
Attachments
SU2
Omono
@sorce I fully agree, anything that seems it makes something easier, sells better...people are generally very dumb consumers! You'd said 'only reason' I misinterpreted you meaning that literally not figuratively ;p
That first larch is awesome!!
Re tea, if you setup motion properly you get aeration due to disturbing the water-surface, like if you have a powerhead or pump in the bucket aimed upward.
So far as:
) Have reduced instant-release fert to every 4-5 days where I'll do maybe 8% nitro (miracle grow 'all purpose'), this is when I apply micros and epsom salt too 
I know what you mean about weeds due to the run-off, I've placed plants under most of my benching and they grow insane it's really cool if you use it to your benefit, I've got a stretch of marigolds in one corner of the benches and a wind-blocking hedge of 'mexican sunflowers' along the back-side of another bench (blocks a major wind-path into my garden ), thankfully the stuff is cheap enough that the runoff isn't expensive! I've got a papaya whose roots are >50% under benches and the thing grows like it's on steroids!
That first larch is awesome!!
Re tea, if you setup motion properly you get aeration due to disturbing the water-surface, like if you have a powerhead or pump in the bucket aimed upward.
So far as:
The CEC of bonsai mixes is generally pretty low, however if you're applying osmocote or similar at routine intervals you should be able to get far more consistent fertilization-levels, I think I'm going to do a 2.5-->3mo gap between osmocote applications (during the growing-season) to get a steadier release (am talking about ~75% strength rates) so there's always some reasonable amount of nutrients at all times, on all those days that it's just getting flushed- I've had lots of days lately where 3x waterings were basically the minimum required for many specimen not to be falling-over with wilt (heavy water & fert has really let them capitalize on growth right now though
) Have reduced instant-release fert to every 4-5 days where I'll do maybe 8% nitro (miracle grow 'all purpose'), this is when I apply micros and epsom salt too I know what you mean about weeds due to the run-off, I've placed plants under most of my benching and they grow insane it's really cool if you use it to your benefit, I've got a stretch of marigolds in one corner of the benches and a wind-blocking hedge of 'mexican sunflowers' along the back-side of another bench (blocks a major wind-path into my garden
), thankfully the stuff is cheap enough that the runoff isn't expensive! I've got a papaya whose roots are >50% under benches and the thing grows like it's on steroids!
