I don't like Bunjin...

[Forsoothe!]

I don't see many Literati or Bunjin that I admire. It seems to me that I probably just don't know or understand enough about the form to do one "my way", which is basically what we all do, all within the boundaries of the Japanese aesthetic that guides us in all the other standard styles.

I have many forests and the best ones are closer to the classical form than those that are not as good. Same, same, for the other styles that I have. It's nearly impossible to take stock from one source or another and duplicate a picture of a perfect tree, so we all make our trees by picking and choosing among the existing wood, stretching here and crimping there, to accommodate what's in the pot with our own tastes and coming out in the end with something good, bad, or indifferent, but not a duplicate of the picture. That's not bad, -after all would we really want to go to a show with 89 cookie-cutter trees?

My best trees are not duplicates of the great trees' photographs, but I do understand what they're supposed to look like and how they're supposed to progress from day one thru maturity. I need to assemble a definitive list of parts and relationships of parts so I can "do my thing" within the boundaries of the accepted aesthetic for Bunjin.

Don't tell me to read books or clink on long winded Links. Been there, done that, dissatisfied with results. I'd like to see lots of people's opinions from which I will assemble a set of rules (for me) a few times that can be argued as stupid or great or mediocre, a few times, honing it down to the essential fine points in the final end. Thank you all for your input, even that which may serve no purpose other than forcing others to re-write their own words to make clear some concepts which are not discussed everyday and therefore not second nature to many of us.

(After that, we'll solve world peace, religion or politics.)

 

[Joe Dupre']

My thought is that you almost have to find a literati. They are surprisingly difficult to work into shape without leaving evidence of the “human touch”.

If you can never find one that speaks to you, it’s probably not your style. Art is subjective

 

[Colorado]

I like Bunjin.

I also prefer naturalistic or “progressive” aesthetic to “classical.”

To me, many bunjin bonsai trees more closely resemble trees I see up in the mountains, or anywhere really, than the short, stocky trees that many here drool over. Have you ever actually seen a “sumo” style tree in the wild? I haven’t (although I’m sure some exist).

That said, I certainly appreciate the technique it requires to create a dense, compact tree. And I find them aesthetically pleasing too. There’s room for all types of styles on my bench

 

[Dav4]

I love a good Bunjin... done right, they move me as much as or more then any other well done style. With that being said, I think it's a very difficult style to carry out effectively. I've got a few in the works, but they are decent at best, imo.

 

[n8]

prefer naturalistic or “progressive” aesthetic to “classical.”

To me, many bunjin bonsai trees more closely resemble trees I see up in the mountains...

Likewise. I enjoy bonsai that remind me of high-altitude backpacking trips in the Sierra Nevada, northern new Mexico and Colorado: Scraggly conifers hanging on for dear life (as well as stout junipers impervious to time).

 

[Joe Dupre']

Bunjin is mainly about an interesting trunk line, not so much about the foliage. I liken it to an attractive, shapely woman in a black jumpsuit. She really doesn’t need bright colors or tons of jewelry to make an outstanding statement.

 

[Dav4]

Bunjin is mainly about an interesting trunk line, not so much about the foliage. I liken it to an attractive, shapely woman in a black jumpsuit. She really doesn’t need bright colors or tons of jewelry to make an outstanding statement.

I agree with the comment about the trunk but disagree with that of the foliage... the relatively small mass of foliage required for a Bunjin makes the placement and movement of said foliage, in conjunction with that of the trunk, very important

 

[penumbra]

Interesting points all but I have to say Bunjin or Literati is by far my favorite of all bonsai styles. It is primarily because of the mood they invoke ... for me.

 

[Zach Smith]

Good bunjin are difficult to match in their ability to evoke a sense of the sublime. With that said, it's uncommon to find a really extraordinary example. There are certainly many good ones, but as with formal upright the style is hard to pull off. I suspect most are created, not made.

 

[PaulH]

Have you ever actually seen a “sumo” style tree in the wild?

 

[Smoke]

They are surprisingly difficult to work into shape without leaving evidence of the “human touch”.
Art is subjective

Most of the best trees in Japan emphasize the human touch....

 

[Joe Dupre']

I agree with the comment about the trunk but disagree with that of the foliage... the relatively small mass of foliage required for a Bunjin makes the placement and movement of said foliage, in conjunction with that of the trunk, very important

Yes, the trunk is "mainly" but not totally what it's about. The foliage is always important, but it's the sweep of the trunk that really sets the tone for the composition.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Most of the best trees in Japan emphasize the human touch....

Smoke, by "evidence" I mean obvious things like " I can see where he removed a branch." or " that jin looks fresh and manmade." type of thing.

 

[bonsaichile]

Have you ever actually seen a “sumo” style tree in the wild? I haven’t

To me that is exactly the point of bonsai. I see little point in just reproducing nature. Non serviam!

 

[penumbra]

To me that is exactly the point of bonsai. I see little point in just reproducing nature. Non serviam!

To some today, indeed you are right. But during the Han through the Song Dynasties in China, it was to bring nature up close and personal. As to the point of 'just' reproducing nature, no one really has or will do so, but if they could I would consider them the master over all. I would be thrilled beyond belief if I could only approximate a vision of nature.

 

[leatherback]

Inbalance, a weathered trunk and subtle foliage are for me the key to good bunjing. Two trees I found online and have in my own resources folder to use as inspiration for some of my own trees:



One I am working on which is a decade away from anything decent

 

[bonsaichile]

To some today, indeed you are right. But during the Han through the Song Dynasties in China, it was to bring nature up close and personal. As to the point of 'just' reproducing nature, no one really has or will do so, but if they could I would consider them the master over all. I would be thrilled beyond belief if I could only approximate a vision of nature.

Except that the Chinese didn't do "bonsai"

 

[penumbra]

Except that the Chinese didn't do "bonsai"

Really does not warrant an answer but you drew me in. "A rose by any other name..."
Penjing was the mother of Bonsai. For certain, the Japanese made it their own and pushed it the the perceived limit of its time, yet today we push it further. And I will not even get into the debate of whether small potted trees were first in the Indus Valley or the Liaoning Provence of China or whether it was for aesthetics or other reasons.
Had these discussions 50 years ago, and you know, it has not changed much.

 

[Smoke]

Smoke, by "evidence" I mean obvious things like " I can see where he removed a branch." or " that jin looks fresh and manmade." type of thing.

You are not getting it. Did you see the tree 45 years ago when the cuts were fresh, and you could see them? While this carving is good, it is easy to see it is manmade. Especially if you have Kimura's book and see the carving freshly done where carving has been done against the grain. Many of the tips look like a feather because the wood would not weather in that way. This tree is upside down and the deadwood apex is the roots.




This trunk is just hideous. This is not improved my man. Opinions all....

 

[bonsaichile]

Really does not warrant an answer but you drew me in. "A rose by any other name..."
Penjing was the mother of Bonsai.

Ok, boomer.

A mother is not their offspring. Judaism is the "mother" of Christianity, but a different religion. Penjing and bonsai are related, but different.