Japanese Black Pine Refinement

[Haidr]

Hello all, I need advice yet again on my JBP. Got a lot of valuable information from this forum which has helped me a lot with the challenges this hobby brings. This bonsai was repotted into a open inorganic mix in August, currently in end
of Spring/ Start of Summer in Melbourne, Australia. I need advice on;
1. Should I decandle it? If yes then ideally towards the end of middle of summer?
2. The bonsai trunk is curved and the apex is towards the right side from the front. It is too complicated as it has too many branches. When is a good time to remove some of those branches to balance the energy of the bonsai? Or if I should let it be?
Any advice will be appreciated as I’m new to the hobby and don’t have much experience with pines. @Shibui @Ryceman3

 

[Ryceman3]

Decandling is for pines in refinement. Whether or not that is the case with your tree depends on your goal for the tree. If you’re happy with trunk/nebari girth, primary branching is in place and you are looking to move to getting denser secondary/tertiary ramification then the answer is “yes”… BUT… you can only really decandle provided you have really strengthened the tree with a decent fertiliser plan over spring to ensure it’s ready to take having all the new growth removed. If that isn’t the case, then I would not recommend it, but it looks to me like it is in good health so I’m predicting you have been fertilising somewhat (I don’t see any though).
If it was my tree and I was confident with my fertiliser regime over the last few months I would most likely decandle.
As for the reduction of branching etc. on a tree like this, if I was to decandle I would leave that until autumn to sort out. Let the tree push new buds evenly across the branching it currently has and then look to reduce in a few months. Doing it at the same time you decandle probably wouldn’t be the end of the world, but no need to rush though.

 

[Shibui]

Given lots of short shoots, I suspect this one has been decandled before. It appears healthy so I would go ahead and decandle this Summer.
Not sure when @Ryceman3 decandles in Melbourne but mid December seems to work well up here.

Pruning branches can be done any time of year. Happy to go along with leaving them on for now and pruning after the new buds have opened - late Summer through to Autumn.

With that strong bend to the right I think you should aim to shorten left side branches to emphasise that direction rather than trying to grow longer left branches as 'balance'

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You could decandle it, and it does look like it’s been done previously on this pine, but that is a late-stage development technique and this tree really needs to be styled first.

In your fall, prune strong upper shoots, weak lower shoots to define primary branches (emerging from the trunk) with pairs of similarly-sized secondary branches.

Pluck needles on remaining shoots until you’re down to 8-10 pairs on each shoot. Then wire everything.

Next year would then start candle-cutting to begin reducing needle size and increasing branch density.

 

[Haidr]

Decandling is for pines in refinement. Whether or not that is the case with your tree depends on your goal for the tree. If you’re happy with trunk/nebari girth, primary branching is in place and you are looking to move to getting denser secondary/tertiary ramification then the answer is “yes”… BUT… you can only really decandle provided you have really strengthened the tree with a decent fertiliser plan over spring to ensure it’s ready to take having all the new growth removed. If that isn’t the case, then I would not recommend it, but it looks to me like it is in good health so I’m predicting you have been fertilising somewhat (I don’t see any though).
If it was my tree and I was confident with my fertiliser regime over the last few months I would most likely decandle.
As for the reduction of branching etc. on a tree like this, if I was to decandle I would leave that until autumn to sort out. Let the tree push new buds evenly across the branching it currently has and then look to reduce in a few months. Doing it at the same time you decandle probably wouldn’t be the end of the world, but no need to rush though.

Decandling is for pines in refinement. Whether or not that is the case with your tree depends on your goal for the tree. If you’re happy with trunk/nebari girth, primary branching is in place and you are looking to move to getting denser secondary/tertiary ramification then the answer is “yes”… BUT… you can only really decandle provided you have really strengthened the tree with a decent fertiliser plan over spring to ensure it’s ready to take having all the new growth removed. If that isn’t the case, then I would not recommend it, but it looks to me like it is in good health so I’m predicting you have been fertilising somewhat (I don’t see any though).
If it was my tree and I was confident with my fertiliser regime over the last few months I would most likely decandle.
As for the reduction of branching etc. on a tree like this, if I was to decandle I would leave that until autumn to sort out. Let the tree push new buds evenly across the branching it currently has and then look to reduce in a few months. Doing it at the same time you decandle probably wouldn’t be the end of the

Decandling is for pines in refinement. Whether or not that is the case with your tree depends on your goal for the tree. If you’re happy with trunk/nebari girth, primary branching is in place and you are looking to move to getting denser secondary/tertiary ramification then the answer is “yes”… BUT… you can only really decandle provided you have really strengthened the tree with a decent fertiliser plan over spring to ensure it’s ready to take having all the new growth removed. If that isn’t the case, then I would not recommend it, but it looks to me like it is in good health so I’m predicting you have been fertilising somewhat (I don’t see any though).
If it was my tree and I was confident with my fertiliser regime over the last few months I would most likely decandle.
As for the reduction of branching etc. on a tree like this, if I was to decandle I would leave that until autumn to sort out. Let the tree push new buds evenly across the branching it currently has and then look to reduce in a few months. Doing it at the same time you decandle probably wouldn’t be the end of the world, but no need to rush though.

Thank you for your elaborate response. Yes, I have been fertilising it heavily with blood and bone organic fertiliser and liquid fertiliser once a week. I usually remove the fertiliser baskets after I have watered the bonsai in the morning to let the surface area breathe as it’s in a small pot. I’m happy with the trunk girth and primary branches, my main goal is to keep the bonsai as close to this size as possible.

 

[Haidr]

Given lots of short shoots, I suspect this one has been decandled before. It appears healthy so I would go ahead and decandle this Summer.
Not sure when @Ryceman3 decandles in Melbourne but mid December seems to work well up here.

Pruning branches can be done any time of year. Happy to go along with leaving them on for now and pruning after the new buds have opened - late Summer through to Autumn.

With that strong bend to the right I think you should aim to shorten left side branches to emphasise that direction rather than trying to grow longer left branches as 'balance'

Thank you for your response. You are right, the tree was decandeled in December 2024 just before when I acquired it. I will decandle it in mid December to avoid leggy growth and I’ll keep it in mind and remove the extra, overly long branches in autumn.

 

[Haidr]

You could decandle it, and it does look like it’s been done previously on this pine, but that is a late-stage development technique and this tree really needs to be styled first.

In your fall, prune strong upper shoots, weak lower shoots to define primary branches (emerging from the trunk) with pairs of similarly-sized secondary branches.

Pluck needles on remaining shoots until you’re down to 8-10 pairs on each shoot. Then wire everything.

Next year would then start candle-cutting to begin reducing needle size and increasing branch density.

Thank you Brian for your response. That’s what I was thinking to prune the strong upper shoots in the apex area to give it a bit more light etc. On the second point, If I don’t decandle it this year won’t it result in leggy growth? It is a shohin size tree and I would like to keep it as close to this size as possible.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

If I don’t decandle it this year won’t it result in leggy growth? It is a shohin size tree and I would like to keep it as close to this size as possible.

Not necessarily. If you decandle it, the resulting growth you’ll have will be at the tips. If you don’t decandle, interior shoots can strengthen and you can cut back to those where needed.

 

[Haidr]

Not necessarily. If you decandle it, the resulting growth you’ll have will be at the tips. If you don’t decandle, interior shoots can strengthen and you can cut back to those where needed.

That’s interesting. Something new to me. Thanks for sharing.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Not necessarily. If you decandle it, the resulting growth you’ll have will be at the tips. If you don’t decandle, interior shoots can strengthen and you can cut back to those where needed.

And as long as you leave needles further back on the branch, when you do finally cut back to them at a later date, you will likely get back budding at those old needles.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Not necessarily. If you decandle it, the resulting growth you’ll have will be at the tips. If you don’t decandle, interior shoots can strengthen and you can cut back to those where needed.

I have this logic mixed up. I thought allowing the "tips" to grow would allow less growth on interior shoots, and cutting candles would make interior growth stronger.

I'm confused.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I have this logic mixed up. I thought allowing the "tips" to grow would allow less growth on interior shoots, and cutting candles would make interior growth stronger.

I'm confused.

Cutting candles weakens the tree a little overall because this year’s needles are the most efficient, and you’re removing them in the peak of the growing season. Leaving them helps strengthen the tree overall, even though the outer and upper shoots are strongest, the weaker and interior shoots do get stronger than in a candle-cut pine…so long as they’re not completely shaded out.

Eventually pines will start to get leggy. When that happens, you need to cut back to interior shoots to bring the foliage closer to the trunk. If you’re annually candle-cutting, those interior shoots weaken and you have fewer choices. In the OP tree, he would be wise to pull some new needles to allow light into those interior shoots so that by fall he can prune the tree back to some of those interior branches to keep foliage close to the trunk.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Cutting candles weakens the tree a little overall because this year’s needles are the most efficient, and you’re removing them in the peak of the growing season. Leaving them helps strengthen the tree overall, even though the outer and upper shoots are strongest, the weaker and interior shoots do get stronger than in a candle-cut pine…so long as they’re not completely shaded out.

Eventually pines will start to get leggy. When that happens, you need to cut back to interior shoots to bring the foliage closer to the trunk. If you’re annually candle-cutting, those interior shoots weaken and you have fewer choices. In the OP tree, he would be wise to pull some new needles to allow light into those interior shoots so that by fall he can prune the tree back to some of those interior branches to keep foliage close to the trunk.

Thank you! That's very helpful.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Cutting candles weakens the tree a little overall because this year’s needles are the most efficient, and you’re removing them in the peak of the growing season. Leaving them helps strengthen the tree overall, even though the outer and upper shoots are strongest, the weaker and interior shoots do get stronger than in a candle-cut pine…so long as they’re not completely shaded out.

Eventually pines will start to get leggy. When that happens, you need to cut back to interior shoots to bring the foliage closer to the trunk. If you’re annually candle-cutting, those interior shoots weaken and you have fewer choices. In the OP tree, he would be wise to pull some new needles to allow light into those interior shoots so that by fall he can prune the tree back to some of those interior branches to keep foliage close to the trunk.

And of course, I watched this video last night, where @leatherback says this in the very first sentence!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

And of course, I watched this video last night, where @leatherback says this in the very first sentence!

He’s a pretty smart fella.

 

[MaciekA]

IF you're still not 100% confident that you want to decandle this year but are ALSO worried about legginess or weakening interiors, you could minimally at least do this:

- pluck the "crotch" (or junction) needles
- pluck downfacing needles
- if you find established-but-weak little shoots in the interior which are surrounded by a congestion of needles, you can pluck those needles to cleanly isolate those shoots, thereby "defending" those shoots within their sphere of influence (i.e. within less than a centimeter or two).

After the above actions, now you have some more room to get wire on the branches, after which you can wire the branches to descend downwards. Now with branches and tips descending, your interiors are going to relatively strengthen even without a decandling. You can extend branches for quite a long distance (inches / feet, miles really) past the silhouette while strengthening the interiors as long as you keep up with thinning/cleaning and wiring (though there is a branch taper cost to overdoing this). @Brian Van Fleet mentions styling above in his first response, styling in pine is really wiring. The earlier you intervene the more time those interior shoots/buds/needles will have to become stronger. The earlier you begin placing branches into positions that reflect where they'll be years from now, the easier it becomes to understand what the goal is too, from season to season.

There's a lot more to what you can do in the spring but the above actions are the easy ones that are straightforward to recommend to someone new to JBP/pine. If possible, try to find a person in your region who works on JBP annually and shadow them during seasonal work as much as possible, since JBP is very much a input->output feedback loop, and the more cases/situations you catch sight of, the more the practices and species itself makes sense.

 

[leatherback]

He’s a pretty smart fella.

Hey! Look in the mirror mate!