Brand new Japanese Black Pine - Advice on goals, chopping, etc.

[Bonsai Babby]

Hello,

I got a Japanese Black Pine in the mail a few days ago and moved it into a training pot. What I would like to work towards is a thick tapering trunk with small branches and lots of ramification at the top. Here are a few pictures from each side. It looks like it has already been pruned and the main branch looks thicker than the trunk.

What should I do? I mean, for now I should just leave it until after winter right? But if that branch is thicker than the trunk, how will I handle it later? Can I chop below that point or will it kill the tree? I welcome any advice anyone has about going towards my goal with this tree. Thanks very much.

 

[mj_barb]

Bonsaify has a ton of videos (and also an e-course) on developing young JBP. Here is a specific video for the stage you are in (yours is probably a 3 year old).

Watch the video for specifics, but I would get some wire on it this winter to introduce some bends as low as possible. I also would treat the top portion as a sacrifice branch and probably chop it back next fall.

 

[Bonsai Babby]

Bonsaify has a ton of videos (and also an e-course) on developing young JBP. Here is a specific video for the stage you are in (yours is probably a 3 year old).

Watch the video for specifics, but I would get some wire on it this winter to introduce some bends as low as possible. I also would treat the top portion as a sacrifice branch and probably chop it back next fall.

Thanks!! I'll do some watching. It seems that the thick branch that is thicker than the trunk is the lowest branch on the trunk though... so if I cut it off, will the tree die? Or do I have to hope that more branches will sprout out below that spot?

 

[Shibui]

The thick branch that is thicker than the trunk is probably now the trunk but that does not matter. We often remove part of a trunk and grow a branch as a new trunk.

Cutting that main branch off right away could possibly kill your little tree because most of the sap is going to the biggest branch now. It can take a while for new sap paths to the remaining smaller branches to develop.
When removing very strong parts of any tree I tend to go a bit slower to allow the tree time to adjust. Initially, just cut the main growing shoot off the top of that big branch, leaving 1 of the smaller branches that are about half way up. This will allow some sap flow while encouraging most of the sap flow to find paths to the lower branches. In 6 months or so you can safely remove the remainder of the big branch.

You should consider what you want to achieve before taking any action.
Pruning now will slow trunk thickening because you are removing so much foliage and the strongest shoot. If you are prepared to spend many more years developing a thick trunk or don't want a thick trunk, that's probably a good move.
If you really want a thick trunk on your pine sometime in the next 10 years you should consider allowing 1 or more branches to grow really long and strong as a sacrifice branch to speed up trunk development.

You also need to read up and understand that JBP is very reluctant to bud on bare wood which means making real sure you don't let all branches get long.

 

[Bonsai Babby]

The thick branch that is thicker than the trunk is probably now the trunk but that does not matter. We often remove part of a trunk and grow a branch as a new trunk.

Cutting that main branch off right away could possibly kill your little tree because most of the sap is going to the biggest branch now. It can take a while for new sap paths to the remaining smaller branches to develop.
When removing very strong parts of any tree I tend to go a bit slower to allow the tree time to adjust. Initially, just cut the main growing shoot off the top of that big branch, leaving 1 of the smaller branches that are about half way up. This will allow some sap flow while encouraging most of the sap flow to find paths to the lower branches. In 6 months or so you can safely remove the remainder of the big branch.

You should consider what you want to achieve before taking any action.
Pruning now will slow trunk thickening because you are removing so much foliage and the strongest shoot. If you are prepared to spend many more years developing a thick trunk or don't want a thick trunk, that's probably a good move.
If you really want a thick trunk on your pine sometime in the next 10 years you should consider allowing 1 or more branches to grow really long and strong as a sacrifice branch to speed up trunk development.

You also need to read up and understand that JBP is very reluctant to bud on bare wood which means making real sure you don't let all branches get long.

Thank you very much. I will have to do more reading and watch some videos before I fully understand your whole post. The biggest branch that is bigger than the trunk also seems to be the lowest branch, so I am wondering if it is even possible to remove it in the future. It I cut it off right where it meets the trunk, there will still be a giant ball that is bigger than the trunk and it will look "dumb". Like my maple... I was thinking of letting it get thick for a while (1-2 years?) and then chopping it below that big branch to get rid of it. But if it won't bud and I'll just kill the tree, then I think I'm going to have a weird tree with branches bigger than the trunk forever. Or can the trunk "catch up" and become thicker than that branch? I don't know.

I know I have a lot to learn!!

 

[ponderingsage]

I think the confusing bit is: how do you promote lower buds/branches while letting a sacrifice branch run? Do you decandle the sacrifice branch in the first few years to push lower buds?

 

[Bonsai Babby]

I think the confusing bit is: how do you promote lower buds/branches while letting a sacrifice branch run? Do you decandle the sacrifice branch in the first few years to push lower buds?

Yeah, please tell me someone, or perhaps it is in the video posted earlier. Haven't had a chance to watch yet, but I will.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I think the confusing bit is: how do you promote lower buds/branches while letting a sacrifice branch run? Do you decandle the sacrifice branch in the first few years to push lower buds?

This is how I've been working my JBP's, although more experienced growers recommend no pruning until the trunk gets to size. @River's Edge has advised me to let mine grow for several years before doing anything. Pruning buds will slow the growth of the trunk.

But... I'm not going for big, fat (heavy) trunks. I want mostly smaller, shohin-sized trees. My strategy now is to have one sacrifice branch that will grow tall to help fatten the trunk, while I cut candles (late spring) on all other branches to get ramification where I want it. That way I'm giving attention to the trunk and the branches. I am basically following the Bonsaify videos. All my JBP are 3.5 to 5 years old now.

With yours, I think you should let it grow.

Do you let the fat branch grow to try to even out the skinny base?
Or do you slow it's growth and let the skinny branch grow?
I'm not sure which one is best.

 

[ponderingsage]

Yeah, mine are pencil thick seedlings, so very few have lower branches and it’s just basically the trunk with a tuft of foliage on the end

 

[Dav4]

I have never de-candled a sacrifice branch as you want to allow it to run vigorously, which will thicken the trunk below (that's the goal). I will reduce buds on the sacrifice to 1 main and one smaller back up, along with judicious needle plucking. I believe the bud reduction reduces auxin levels that might otherwise inhibit bud growth and vigor in lower branches. Couple that with the reduced foliage mass after needle plucking, and your lower branches should be receiving adequate sun to grow strongly.