Japanese Maple Air Layer

[RichKid]

Not looking so good there Rich... Might I make a suggestion? Spend the energy and time layering something with better movement. That is a telephone pole in the making... Unless you are layering it to grow it out, chop it, grow it some more... Which is tedious. Find a spot with a little wiggle to it and layer just below it.

Also- perlite. I am a broken record on this BECAUSE IT WORKS. Better than sphagnum.

Finally.. If you just put this on the end of May, you are only a little over 6 weeks into the layer- probably just needs more time. I had a few removed after about two moths this Spring, but that was the fastest I have ever had them take and the roots were a little young at the time of removal...

I layered that piece in particular because i actually did plan to make it a decades long project. Just clipping and growing. My main concern was getting that particular cultivar on its own roots with no graft unions. I was hoping that the mere sight of roots was enough to indicate success and that perhaps it just needed time. Now I'm not so sure! Most of the growth on that tree is straight. The top was beautiful and would've made a great tree but I tried to layer it last year and it died. Someone told me to layer from the bottom because basal branches have a better chance of throwing roots. So that's what I did. And it didn't die and even produced those little roots. Lol. I mixed perlite and sphagnum because I wanted something that would stay moist a little longer in case I wasn't able to get right to it. Do you think that perhaps this thing will grow roots if I leave it on till say Sept or is the current result indicative of a failure? Thanks for the advice.

 

[ColinFraser]

Less than 2 weeks from the last photo, and my root isn't lonely anymore - hooray!
I still can't see roots on the back side, but it's hard to get a good look at. I want to be really sure about this one, so it's definitely staying on there for a while yet.

 

[drew33998]

I would go ahead and either add another layer of sphagnum around the roots that are there, or use a plastic nursery container cut in half with bonsai soil or perlite around it while it is still attached to the parent tree. That way it will try to grow secondary branches off the one that are there. I did this to mine 2-3 weeks ago and already am seeing some roots poking out the bottoms of the nursery containers.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Would it be a bad idea to use perlite as an air layer potting substance for japanes maples?

If you've waited for enough white roots to form, you can pretty much go right into your usual soil.
But NOT without a good quantity of roots.

 

[Eric Group]

I layered that piece in particular because i actually did plan to make it a decades long project. Just clipping and growing. My main concern was getting that particular cultivar on its own roots with no graft unions. I was hoping that the mere sight of roots was enough to indicate success and that perhaps it just needed time. Now I'm not so sure! Most of the growth on that tree is straight. The top was beautiful and would've made a great tree but I tried to layer it last year and it died. Someone told me to layer from the bottom because basal branches have a better chance of throwing roots. So that's what I did. And it didn't die and even produced those little roots. Lol. I mixed perlite and sphagnum because I wanted something that would stay moist a little longer in case I wasn't able to get right to it. Do you think that perhaps this thing will grow roots if I leave it on till say Sept or is the current result indicative of a failure? Thanks for the advice.

Well, you got roots! That probably is not a "failure"... What did you wind up doing with it after that picture? If you just wrapped it back up, and things are progressing well, you should have more roots by now.

 

[Eric Group]

Less than 2 weeks from the last photo, and my root isn't lonely anymore - hooray!
I still can't see roots on the back side, but it's hard to get a good look at. I want to be really sure about this one, so it's definitely staying on there for a while yet.
View attachment 78487

Looks ready to separate to me.

 

[erb.75]

If you've waited for enough white roots to form, you can pretty much go right into your usual soil.
But NOT without a good quantity of roots.

I tried to air layer a yatsubusa elm this year (I know, different species) and
1) it grew a root on the bottom of the air layer, not on top
2) I cut off part of the branch on the bottom, turned it upside-down (with only 1 root there) and stuck it in sp. peat moss/vermiculite. It's now grown 8 leaves and seems to be enough for survival

maybe jap. maples need more roots than 1? Chinese elms sure don't!

 

[Eric Group]

I tried to air layer a yatsubusa elm this year (I know, different species) and
1) it grew a root on the bottom of the air layer, not on top
2) I cut off part of the branch on the bottom, turned it upside-down (with only 1 root there) and stuck it in sp. peat moss/vermiculite. It's now grown 8 leaves and seems to be enough for survival

maybe jap. maples need more roots than 1? Chinese elms sure don't!

It is just a matter of increasing chances of success. What you are describing is basically a cutting that had a little head start. JM and Elms ARE doable as cuttings, but you ensure success if you layer it and get a good root system first.

Reading over this thread inspired me to go ahead and check a JM Arakawa air layer I started a couple months ago again. I checked it a couple weeks ago and didn't think I had many roots, but when I popped the pot off today, there was an abundance of new roots popping radially off the trunk, just like I have gotten every time I tried the perlite in a pot method I started using this year.

Again- the advantages are:
Perfectly straight radial roots extending off the trunk, not all curled and twisted into sphagnum the way you get with moss.

The perlite just falls off the new roots when you repot, doesn't stay all twisted and intertwined into them..

They root faster and more reliably, with again radial coverage all the way around the trunk, every time so far. The tree seems willing to root as far up the trunk as you bury it, so the more shallow it is, the better. The one I did on this Arakawa had a prefect single layer of roots around it! A few of the others developed roots along multiple levels, and might be harder to get a good, flat, single layer all the way around without doing some heavy cutting. Pretty cool when the only "issue" I have found so far is that you might get TOO MANY roots!

It really is the better way to layer!

 

[0soyoung]

the perlite in a pot method I started using this year.

Again- the advantages are:
Perfectly straight radial roots extending off the trunk, not all curled and twisted into sphagnum the way you get with moss.

The perlite just falls off the new roots when you repot, doesn't stay all twisted and intertwined into them..

They root faster and more reliably, with again radial coverage all the way around the trunk, every time so far. The tree seems willing to root as far up the trunk as you bury it, so the more shallow it is, the better. The one I did on this Arakawa had a prefect single layer of roots around it! A few of the others developed roots along multiple levels, and might be harder to get a good, flat, single layer all the way around without doing some heavy cutting. Pretty cool when the only "issue" I have found so far is that you might get TOO MANY roots!

It really is the better way to layer!

This marketing pitch for perlite is overdone, Eric.
cmeg1 got radial roots from his zelkova layers but did not use perlite. He used a mix of acadama and sphagnum.
I've done a large number of layers and find no correlation between the rooting medium and the number and radial disribution of the generated roots. Here, for example, are the roots that originated in a conventional sphagnum-in-a-bag layer. Lots of roots nicely distributed radially around the trunk.View media item 1078

 

[Eric Group]

This marketing pitch for perlite is overdone, Eric.
cmeg1 got radial roots from his zelkova layers but did not use perlite. He used a mix of acadama and sphagnum.
I've done a large number of layers and find no correlation between the rooting medium and the number and radial disribution of the generated roots. Here, for example, are the roots that originated in a conventional sphagnum-in-a-bag layer. Lots of roots nicely distributed radially around the trunk.View media item 1078

Nope. It is not overdone, it is me stating my experience. I have had countless failures with the sphagbag method, and 100% success with perlite in a pot. Faster, more reliable, better roots. Roots that grow straight off the trunk instead of all kinds of varying directions, roots that are not all wrapped up in sphagnum... It IS a better method, in MY experience. Doesn't mean I have not had some layers that were successful with sphagnum- but of those that did do well, most if not all had roots produced only in one or two areas, not all around the trunk. Keep playing Russian roulette, or go with a method that works better. You choice.

I never said people should stop using the sphagnum moss method, but I recommend the perlite every time someone asks how to layer or expresses a difficulty in getting good reliable roots (which Rich kid did in this thread), because I had that same problem a couple years ago and I know how to fix it.

 

[michaelj]

I think it's the pot method more than the perlite. I also had countless failures with moss, and *almost* 100% success with the pot method, but I use normal bonsai soil mixes instead of perlite.

Have you had the same success with perlite if you use a plastic wrap instead of a pot?

 

[RichKid]

Well I just wrapped it back up and kept it wet. I haven't checked it. The leaves have been a little scorched but I dont think that's necessarily related to the layering. I think maybe I'll check it later this evening or tomorrow afternoon. I just wanted to leave it alone for now and see what happens. Once I get it on its own roots it's gonna go into the ground for the next few years to thicken up and get clipped and grown. I'll post a pic when I open it up and see what's there.

 

[RichKid]

By the way I used a pot w a mix of perlite and moss. I hope I haven't been keeping it too wet. But I'm away at long intervals during the day and it's really sunny and hot in my backyard so I give them really good drinks to make sure they don't dry out during the day.

 

[Dav4]

Fwiw, I used sphagnum moss, wrapped in plastic AND in a pot, for the first time as air layer medium on a 'Shishigashira' ap last year. I sequentially started and successfully removed 5 layers from the same 6' tall tree last year by August...all were separated within 8 wks with loads of roots. As always, there is more then one way to skin a cat...

 

[coh]

I've done most of my layering before this year using the standard sphagnum-in-a-plastic-bag technique. Most of the attempts have been successful. Root systems are sometimes very nicely distributed, sometimes not. Is that due to the use of sphagnum? Would another technique work better?

This year I've got 2 layers going, both on Japanese maples, both using standard bonsai soil (mainly aggregate) in a plastic pot. So far one of them seems to have produced a lot of roots and may be ready to separate within a couple of weeks (this one was started in March). The other was started later (mid June) and is just starting to produce roots.

If there is a difference in the techniques, I would think it might be due to the amount of air that can get to the developing root system. The use of a pot instead of a bag would allow more air into the layer. The use of something coarse like perlite or other aggregates might allow more air into the layer. On the other hand, these would also dry out faster.

 

[Eric Group]

I think it's the pot method more than the perlite. I also had countless failures with moss, and *almost* 100% success with the pot method, but I use normal bonsai soil mixes instead of perlite.

Have you had the same success with perlite if you use a plastic wrap instead of a pot?

I have never tried it in plastic wrap. The trouble with plastic wrap is that it is more difficult to tell if it is drying out or not, and if it IS, And you need to water, then you have to take the plastic off... Not a big deal with moss perhaps (as long as all the pulling and tugging doesn't damage the developing roots) but with perlite, you are likely to lose a large portion of the medium when you open the moss... I don't know how the logistics of trying to keep the perlite in the right place would work, or trying to make it a thick enough layer... But it just seems like it would be a big pain!

I am sure regular bonsai soil would work fine, and I mix very small amounts into the perlite most of the time when rooting cuttings or making layers to add some weight to the mix, mostly I out it on top of the perlite to keep moisture in and keep it from washing out. Bonsai mix would probably work great on it's own for rooting cuttings too, though I don't see how it could be MORE successful than perlite.. But the expense factor comes into play. I'd rather fill my propagation pots with perlite I can buy in large 50 gallon bags for about $18 vs using Akadama, pumice...

I think the air exchange coupled with the loose rooting medium that allows roots to grow through it easily without changing it's direction or getting all wrapped up in it are what makes perlite (or bonsai mix) the superior substrate for layers. At he pot probably helps as well because it allows air into the mix unlike plastic wrapped all around it...

 

[Eric Group]

Well I just wrapped it back up and kept it wet. I haven't checked it. The leaves have been a little scorched but I dont think that's necessarily related to the layering. I think maybe I'll check it later this evening or tomorrow afternoon. I just wanted to leave it alone for now and see what happens. Once I get it on its own roots it's gonna go into the ground for the next few years to thicken up and get clipped and grown. I'll post a pic when I open it up and see what's there.

Good luck man! Hope you get some good roots!

 

[Dav4]

Actually, the plastic wrap, imo, is much easier then the pot method, which I have tried before. The sphagnum takes a long time to dry out, probably more then a week without adding moisture. Also, for me, it's super easy to add water because I always left a small gap between the top of the wrap and the trunk...hold the hose there for 5 seconds every few days and your done. The only reason I ever took the wrap off was to examine the roots or add more moss.

 

[michaelj]

Maybe leaving a gap for watering would improve my success with the wrap method. For now, I never use the wrap method unless I have to, i.e., when I'm trying to root a horizontal branch. Because so far, I have very low success rates with wrapping moss, and very high success rates using pots and well-draining soil. Eric, you've now piqued my curiosity, and this week, I'm going to do about six new layers on two big maples, and I'm going to split the pots 50/50 between bonsai soil and perlite. If perlite roots faster and stronger than soil, I'll report back.

 

[RichKid]

Opened mine today. No roots. I think it's done. There was one lone root and it wasn't white so I'm assuming it's dead.