Japanese Maple Progression Thread

[small trees]

Hey guys,

I enjoy reading your older progression threads to see trees grow and evolve over years. Therefore, I decided to make my own with a cheap piece of nursery material I got today. I paid $25 for it, and I bought this one because the nebari already had a start. I am probably early to do all that I did to it, but it is already in the 80s in Georgia, and even though it will probably cool off I seriously doubt that we will see more than one or two nights below freezing in what remains of the winter.

I got it home today, trimmed the roots a little, chopped the trunk, and planted it on a plate in the back yard. I purposely chopped high because although I only want the first 5-6" of the tree for bonsai, the next 10 inches or so above it would make a nice air layer.

All I have for you so far are a couple pictures of the different sides of the tree. Trunk diameter is around an inch, so nothing special. I will post a picture of the tree as it sits in the ground tomorrow, so that hopefully as time goes on there will be a better reference point.


Also, as a side note, when planted in the ground, should nebari be slightly underground to help thicken them?

As always, any thoughts and direction are welcome. Hopefully in a few years I'll be proud of what I've done with this tree.

 

[JudyB]

Good pick as far as base and nebari starts. What type of style do you see this tree going toward? What type of trees do you gravitate toward?
So far I see a tree that needs some thickening, and a couple chops after. But depends on your goal...

 

[small trees]

Good pick as far as base and nebari starts. What type of style do you see this tree going toward? What type of trees do you gravitate toward?
So far I see a tree that needs some thickening, and a couple chops after. But depends on your goal...

After the tree has been in the ground for a couple years or however long it needs to, I would like an informal upright, but as formal as possible. It's hard to say exactly. Something like the picture below. I am pulling a stock picture from google just to try to convey what I am looking for. I would like to pick a front that allowed me to grow a leader almost perfectly straight up.

I would prefer something like this as a final image:

versus an informal upright like this:

As far as chops go, I definitely agree with you. I'm not going to rush those though unless I have a sudden vision for the tree, which is unlikely for me.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Either way, you really should be doing more aggressive root work (at the right time of year...suspect it's still a bit early) and planting into a shallower, wider container with coarser soil.

The roots will simply enlarge unpredictably and unevenly in a deep pot. The artist needs to intervene and direct, control and plan the root growth.

If you can make a shallow wooden box, with plenty of drainage holes, I'd try again tomorrow. Comb the roots out radially, eliminate everything growing down and under the trunk.

This one started where yours is, 11 years ago. I have repotted it every year, aggressively working out the roots, and will continue to until I get the nebari exactly where I want it. Last spring I went easy on it because I was sending to the NY show and wanted it to be well-established...probably left double what it needed:

 

[small trees]

Either way, you really should be doing more aggressive root work (at the right time of year...suspect it's still a bit early) and planting into a shallower, wider container with coarser soil.

The roots will simply enlarge unpredictably and unevenly in a deep pot. The artist needs to intervene and direct, control and plan the root growth.

If you can make a shallow wooden box, with plenty of drainage holes, I'd try again tomorrow. Comb the roots out radially, eliminate everything growing down and under the trunk.

This one started where yours is, 11 years ago. I have repotted it every year, aggressively working out the roots, and will continue to until I get the nebari exactly where I want it. Last spring I went easy on it because I was sending to the NY show and wanted it to be well-established...probably left double what it needed:

I actually read your blog like 4 times earlier when I was searching for how to enlarge nebari. By the way, you are indexed by google and on the first page for that search term! Anyway, the pot that is shown in the picture was just there to keep from making a mess. I thought I should plant it in the ground on top of a plate to enlarge the trunk. Are you saying I should go straight to a bonsai pot?

Either way, I can definitely rework the roots some. I didn't eliminate and roots under the trunk, and I didn't comb them out radially really.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I actually read your blog like 4 times earlier when I was searching for how to enlarge nebari. By the way, you are indexed by google and on the first page for that search term! Anyway, the pot that is shown in the picture was just there to keep from making a mess. I thought I should plant it in the ground on top of a plate to enlarge the trunk. Are you saying I should go straight to a bonsai pot?

Either way, I can definitely rework the roots some. I didn't eliminate and roots under the trunk, and I didn't comb them out radially really.

You can still plant it in the ground, but it is important to do these steps first, and every couple years:
1. remove everything under the trunk
2. comb out everything radially
3. reduce the heavier roots (they will ramify at the cut)
4. Plant on a tile or plate

It's funny how often I see one of my trees on a google search...often linked to an incorrect bonsai search term/wrong species.

 

[small trees]

You can still plant it in the ground, but it is important to do these steps first, and every couple years:
1. remove everything under the trunk
2. comb out everything radially
3. reduce the heavier roots (they will ramify at the cut)
4. Plant on a tile or plate

It's funny how often I see one of my trees on a google search...often linked to an incorrect bonsai search term/wrong species.

I don't know how long you've been in bonsai (at least 11 years ) but it has to be flattering for that sort of thing to happen, even if it is incorrect.

Thanks for the help! I work a long shift tomorrow, so I will either do it tomorrow night if I'm not too tired, or Thursday. I'll try and take a couple pictures of the roots as I comb them out to make sure I'm doing it correctly.

 

[small trees]

I did some root work on the tree. wired it to a plate, and replanted it tonight. I cleaned out the mess under the trunk, but I wasn't able to trim back the heavier roots that will make the nebari as much, because most of the feeder roots I have left are on the ends of these. Before/after pics below.

 

[Ris]

First of that's very hard pruning, it would be better of with what it had at first that being said.
Cross your fingers and pray it recovers from this, I don't mean to be negative on your work but
I have learn't just as you would in time, no matter what process others give its your tree and your responsible for its life.

Best regards.

 

[Dan W.]

I don't think you went too far. Good after care and you should be just fine

 

[Dav4]

I don't think you went too far. Good after care and you should be just fine

I agree...though waiting until buds were pushing would have been better.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Good job...next year clean out the underside a bit more. Don't let it freeze, keep it still, and keep an eye on the soil moisture.

With their limited reach, the roots my be dry before the soil looks dry. Chopped sphagnum (not peat) moss on the surface for a few weeks slows moisture loss by evaporation.

 

[JudyB]

Make sure you wire the tree in well, so it can't move around in spring winds or when you move it. The new roots will be pretty fragile when they're young.
I think you did well, the tree has a nice potential base. How close to budding out is it in your climate? JM's can be done even after leaf break, and before they harden.

 

[garywood]

GB, depending on what you want the eventual nebari to look like is how the initial work is done. Just like branches, where you cut will be close to %75-%80 of the new growth. If you don't cut the growth will continue to grow. That's not always bad especially if there needs to be girth in that spot. My priorty would be more basal roots and secondary roots closer to the trunk. Cutting roots can be a scary opperation but doing good bonsai requires it. The black line is the minimal I would cut if I was unsure of competence or aftercare and if not, the red line would be the first and followed up in 2 years with another round of aggressive pruning. Having said that: you can't do "bonsai" with the tree, just preparing it.

 

[small trees]

Haha, I got a range of replies from 'you killed it' to 'you did just fine' to 'you should have pruned more'. To all: We'll see how it fares this year. I don't plan on pruning the roots any more than I did last night this year. If I check on it next year and the roots are more established close to the tree, I will feel more comfortable pruning off the outer growth.

at Brian: I'll place some sphagnum moss tonight after work, thanks for the tip.


at Judy: It is wired in pretty well, but I'll keep an eye on it nevertheless. It has been 80+ all this week and most of last week, so we are pretty close to budding out here. Some of the trees in the back yard are budding out already.

 

[JudyB]

Haha, I got a range of replies from 'you killed it' to 'you did just fine' to 'you should have pruned more'.

Happens all the time! Mostly it's because we all experience different outcomes for different reasons. Maybe someone pruned roots on a tree that wasn't healthy to begin with at a marginal time to do such a procedure, and had a problem. But by and large what you are doing is accepted practice for a healthy tree at this time IN YOUR CLIMATE. (I think, from what you've said about how the native flora is acting. )

Just be aware that you may need to protect this should the weather take a turn for the cold...

And remember that the safe rule of thumb is one major insult per year per tree. ( Unless it's super hardy and tough to begin with...)

 

[small trees]

Happens all the time! Mostly it's because we all experience different outcomes for different reasons. Maybe someone pruned roots on a tree that wasn't healthy to begin with at a marginal time to do such a procedure, and had a problem. But by and large what you are doing is accepted practice for a healthy tree at this time IN YOUR CLIMATE. (I think, from what you've said about how the native flora is acting. )

Just be aware that you may need to protect this should the weather take a turn for the cold...

And remember that the safe rule of thumb is one major insult per year per tree. ( Unless it's super hardy and tough to begin with...)

The top needs to be reduced in proportion to the roots though, right? Do the two together count as one 'insult'?

 

[JudyB]

Yes you can reduce the top at the same time as rootwork. I read somewhere that the procedure was in this order.
Don't water the tree for a couple days.
Root prune, repot, then prune branches, then water.

This could be out of date information, I believe it was from an older book, but it has to do with sap drawing.

Tridents are in this order according to that same source.

Prune branches, prune roots, repot, then water.

If someone has better information, please jump in!