Japanese White pine #2

[Adair M]

To tmmason:

I don't know Bjorne, but I do know that the Japanese trained bonsai artists prefer copper. With a few exceptions: aluminum for azaleas. And maybe deciduous.

Usually deciduous trees only get new shoots wired. They don't try to bend wood that's over a year old. They wire the new shoots when they are soft and flexible, leave the wire on for a month to six weeks, remove the wire, cut back, let it grow out, wire the new shoots...

So, for this they use aluminum. The shoots are very flexible.

For conifer, pretty much copper only.

(My sources for this information: Peter Tea, Owen Reich, Boon)

 

[JudyB]

Judy,

It looks like Owen did a very nice job on your tree!



I'm sure you learned a lot from Owen. He's good at wiring.

Yes I think that we made the most of it, and it will get better as it grows up.
I did learn a lot, and he is good at wiring. He said that my wiring skills were pretty good, he showed me how to do better anchoring, my weakest point. I think he was surprised that I taught myself wiring from a book.

But I do see the difference of how the branches are manipulated, not just the tufts, but the layering of branchlets. It was a good time of year to do this, as the older needles could get cleaned up so it made for a good session.

 

[JudyB]

Usually deciduous trees only get new shoots wired. They don't try to bend wood that's over a year old.

While this may be true for them, I know I wire wood that is over a year old all the time, and alum. is fine for that. (talking deciduous...)

 

[october]

This pine is just getting better and better and this is just the beginning.

Rob

 

[JudyB]

Thanks Rob!

You did help me out a great deal with the initial work, and I'm grateful to you for that.

 

[Adair M]

While this may be true for them, I know I wire wood that is over a year old all the time, and alum. is fine for that. (talking deciduous...)

Ah. Just the point I was trying to make.

You're doing it wrong.

Please don't take offense, I'd been doing it wrong, too!

Deciduous trees should be developed by growing new growth, and wiring new growth rather than trying to wire and bend old growth. And for that aluminum wire is fine.

Check out Peter Tea's recent blog about his trident maple. He describes the process there.

Sorry, but I've strayed from the principal topic if this thread, your JWP. I wish you continued success with it. They do prefer colder climates, so that's a plus for you.

 

[JudyB]

Not to stray again, but sometimes you must re-wire growth after the first year to continue or keep the bends you wish. I'm sure I am doing it wrong, but if it doesn't hold after the first year, I'll continue to wire it.
Thanks for the good thoughts!

 

[october]

The title of this thread is White pine 2.. How about White pine 1?

Rob

 

[JudyB]

The title of this thread is White pine 2.. How about White pine 1?

Rob

Gotta finish wiring, and then I'll update that one too. Thanks for the nudge!

 

[amkhalid]

Someone mentioned Peter Tea's article on proper pine wiring. Owen seems to have gotten the point across, but here is the article just in case anyone wants to read it.

http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/five-needle-pine-quickly/

 

[SMJ76]

Wonderful white pine! I was looking at one myself recently. I think of them personally as one of the most beautiful pines.

 

[JudyB]

Me too, I could have more and never tire of them. Someday I want one that isn't grafted for sure.

 

[october]

I saw a video of a shohin white pine in Japan, If I remember correctly it was not a graft. It was astounding. A little tree that had a thick, old trunk. White pines take so long to develop the bark and size compared to a black pines. Black pines can get an aged trunk in 8-10 years or so. I think white pines take like 40-50 years plus. Hence, why there are so many grafts and so few natural white pine bonsai. Well, at least in the united states.

Rob

 

[Neli]

White Pune is grafted on BP to make it stronger...more vigorous and to withstand warmer (to a degree) temperature.
I had a big lecture few days ago, by my master....he said lowest two branches, left and right should never be the same level on an informal upright bonsai. You need to lower your right branch somewhat parallel to the trunk and then going outwards horizontal with the tips up.
I think that is not a hard branch to bend, and you can do it.
Your pine is getting better and better.

 

[JudyB]

Neli,
that is what the majority of the work on the tree was directed at in the session with Owen. It is being pulled down with a guy wire at this point, and will continue as we go along with its progression. I've always known that this was the largest flaw on the tree, so we will do our best to minimize it.
Thanks for your comments.

 

[Neli]

Judy wish you only the best...keep twisting those guide wires from time to time.

 

[fore]

Looking very good Judy! Fantastic opportunity to work with Owen too!

And that is a very thick branch Judy to try to bend down. Any idea how long this might take?

 

[JudyB]

I don't think without rebar and some risk, it'll ever bend very much. I'm not sure how long the slower/less risky process will take to achieve max. bend, time will tell. Camouflage will be key in this instance....

 

[coh]

Did you guys talk about possibly notching the branch at the trunk to allow it to be pulled down further? Disclaimer, I haven't done this on pines but have seen it demonstrated several times

It looks like the two lowest branches emanate from the same level on the trunk (or is that just the way it appears in the photo), and that can't be changed unless one is removed. So to some degree there will always be that "problem". Regardless, it's a very nice tree that I'd be happy to have in my collection...

Chris

 

[JudyB]

We didn't talk about notching it, I suppose it can always be done in the future should the angle need to be more than can be achieved with wire. I'm not one who would do anything that will compromise the trees health if that is avoidable. But it is something to consider.