JWP Seed Bud Size

[Hawke84]

Hi all,
so just checking on all the trees I have, I have a couple of mines, a JWP seed and a grafted one. the grafted has fairly large buds, the seed has incredible small buds which are almost hard to see.
- Should i be worried?
- Should i make any changes to fertilising this year if its potentially in a weaker state? i.e. fertilising before candles are extending, ignoring needle length?

 

[Dav4]

The needles and bud look healthy/normal to me. The difference between your two trees could be genetic Versus potentially more vigor associated with being grafted. With that being said, if you’re treating them the same way horticulturally, I wouldn’t worry. For what it’s worth, a picture of the trees in question would be more effective in establishing their overall health.

 

[Adair M]

The grafted tree you have is most likely a “dwarf cultivar”. I’m assuming you bought it from a bonsai dealer. The dwarf cultivars are used for bonsai because they have prettier foliage. (Short, straight needles, produce tight tufts, etc.)

The bud you pictured looks very much like some of my JWP. Those “buds” you see will likely become needles.

 

[Adair M]

Here is one of my JWP doing exactly the same thing:



At about 11 o’clock, you can see some needle tips emerging. In the middle of the picture, you can see a bud popping in the middle of a bare twig.

 

[Hawke84]

thanks guys, i always like to check stuff like this before carrying on assuming all is ok.
@Adair M your tree has multiple buds, im struggling to see a single on each shoot of mine, just the spring progress of mine?

 

[Adair M]

On my tree, most of what you are calling “buds” are developing needle clusters. The needles are just beginning to emerge on a couple of them. It’s not developing a “candle”, rather, the buds it created last fall are just making needles. This particular tree started growing a second flush last fall. The buds made over the summer started swelling last fall. Then colder weather hit, and stopped it. Now, with warmer spring weather, the buds are beginning to make their needles.

Now, will it go on to make a “normal” spring candle in addition to the needles it’s starting to grow? I don’t know. It probably will depend upon how much I fertilize.

I suspect that the reason I got the “second flush” started last fall is that I had uppotted this tree last spring, and the roots were growing rapidly into the new soil. Rapid root growth will stimulate top growth.

Your tree looks healthy, and I wouldn’t worry about it. Each tree grows slightly differently. Just observe and learn your tree’s behavior.

 

[Hawke84]

Thanks Adair, its good to know. The tree has been pretty healthy over the past couple of years ive had it.
I've got a few yellowing needles, i cant quite tell if its cast or not. the position of the needles are on last years shoots so they shouldnt be yellowing from age. Would be interested on your thoughts?

 

[Adair M]

Thanks Adair, its good to know. The tree has been pretty healthy over the past couple of years ive had it.
I've got a few yellowing needles, i cant quite tell if its cast or not. the position of the needles are on last years shoots so they shouldnt be yellowing from age. Would be interested on your thoughts?

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Looks like some type of fungus. Spray with Copper fungicide.

JWP more more resistant to the needle cast type fungi than JBP, but not totally resistant.

 

[sorce]

im struggling to see a single on each shoot of mine, just the spring progress of mine?

I believe your definition of "bud" vs. "buds" is being confused because the picture shows one but the wording is plural.

Seems you Do NOT have clusters of buds. Which the other tree Does, or I'm crazy!

Sorce

 

[Hawke84]

I believe your definition of "bud" vs. "buds" is being confused because the picture shows one but the wording is plural.

Seems you Do NOT have clusters of buds. Which the other tree Does, or I'm crazy!

Sorce

Hi Sorce, how ya doing? its likely me just throng the wrong terms around, sorry. I know its still early in the year but just expecting to see a cluster of little buds but the picture only has a single bud as you say, but they havent started to swell yet for spring.

 

[sorce]

but they havent started to swell yet for spring

They would have been there already.

@Wires_Guy_wires has an odd acting pine that constantly grows from one center bud. That's the only tree I've ever seen that you can't gauge it's health by, with how many buds have formed in fall.

Bonsai4me.com has this outlined for Spruce, gauging health by bud count, I've found it True for everything.

That said, I don't think your tree is as healthy as we think.

Sorce

 

[Hawke84]

I'm slightly twitchy because i lost a JWP seed recently but i think it was on its way out when i got it, but its made me slightly sensitive to this.
I have had this tree since 2019, repotted November 2019 by Harry of Bonsai4me who is about 2 hours from me! i was then left and wired summer 2020, mainly around bringing the apex down.
I havent snapped pics of the buds but ive got a few of the tree over the past few years
first pic is June 2019, next pic is March 2020.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My weird acting mugo tree had 60% of the foliage removed. It's healthy but still stressed out after three years.
The key people tend to miss is that it produces juvenile foliage from some buds; a tell tale sign of stress in pines. Health wise it's fine: it produces a lot of roots, foliage looks good, some buds act like buds, physically it's just still in a restoration phase.

Skipping a dormant ("encapsulated") bud phase and producing needle clusters isn't always an issue. I have more pines that do this, but the important part is that they are dormant for a full winter unlike my weird acting one mugo that just continues growing throughout every season.
Somewhere down the line it's going to run out of fuel.
The needle clustering in my scots pines is something I keep an eye out for. Branches that do this have a raised chance of witch brooming, which could be infection related.
But it's related, not causal. All witch brooms i found have had needle clusters, but not all needle clusters turn into witch brooms.

I have never owned JWP so I don't know if any of this can be translated to JWP. Just sharing my observations.