Las Vegas...

Dav4 said:
I also believe God gave us free will, and I would hope He would want us to be a little more proactive in the area of at least trying to slow evil down, if only a little bit.
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It is the lack of parenting... I am known in our Borough as the guy who will tell a parent to actually watch their children so I don't have to admonish them. My children were raised proper and respected now being adults.
Children today, not all, but most are without guidance... horrible. What is worse it is "highly" likely the nut cases were never cared for and the result of the same...
Look around...

Grimmy
 
just.wing.it said:
Agreed sir, completely.
Now maybe I'm not as caught up at this moment, but as far as I know, we don't know what he used, or how he obtained it.
One thing we do know is that people who go through the proper, legal channels to obtain their guns usually aren't the ones doing the type of thing...

In the neighborhood where I grew up, ten year old walk around with loaded pistols....
I could go get an illegal firearm anywhere at any time, with zero problems.
Truth is, BVF already said all that can be said.
Raise your kids, don't let the public schools raise them, don't let the media raise them, don't let MTV raise them.
Evil is evil, it's not politics.
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I agree that all this posturing is a bit premature given the facts we don't know yet. I just don't want to become someone desensitized and complacent to horrors like this, and if there is anything that could be done within reason to decrease the chances of it happening again, we should do it.
 
GrimLore said:
It is the lack of parenting... I am known in our Borough as the guy who will tell a parent to actually watch their children so I don't have to admonish them. My children were raised proper and respected now being adults.
Children today, not all, but most are without guidance... horrible. What is worse it is "highly" likely the nut cases were never cared for and the result of the same...
Look around...

Grimmy
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The suspect here is 64... that's older then you, isn't it? And you're blaming bad parenting for this??
 
Dav4 said:
I agree that all this posturing is a bit premature given the facts we don't know yet. I just don't want to become someone desensitized and complacent to horrors like this, and if there is anything that could be done within reason to decrease the chances of it happening again, we should do it.
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Sure, I can't disagree with that.
 
Dav4 said:
The suspect here is 64... that's older then you, isn't it? And you're blaming bad parenting for this??
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Lack of concern and care by parents. For example it is not uncommon for parents not to get help for a child when they need it. That will always be BUT today it seems to be the standard and it is a bit unnerving to think of the future. He is one year older then me and honest if he is the same person I knew in Buffalo New York many years ago(he has the same name) that moved to California he never had any Supervision except for the Police...

Grimmy
 
Wilson said:
It is impossible to avoid the fact that the US is stuck in a trap with gun culture. People avoid the fact that in many countries it is quite difficult to acquire a gun, never mind automatic. So people will continue to blame the individual, as they should, but avoid the true elephant in the room. Such a sad event, my heart goes out to all those touched by the violence.
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So in countries where it is quite difficult to acquire a gun, no one is ever murdered with a gun?
 
GrimLore said:
I don't own full auto's anymore, gave them all to my oldest Son who has been an avid collector along with a lot of other guns. I have 5 hand guns, 1 bolt action rifle, and two shotguns. Handguns are for plinking(it is fun;)) and carry. Long arms for hunting. Like anything including Bonsai, shooting is a hobby, often a sport. I carry even when Fishing or Collecting as "critters" can be unnerving. Fact is I have a choice :)

EDIT: My Dad bought me a Lifetime NRA membership when I was 18, I don't actively participate and really have no idea what their stance is anymore. I just like having the choice.

Grimmy
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So, you really didn't answer the question of "why should these types of weapons be legally available to citizens?" Choice can't be the only (or even an acceptable) answer.

Regarding parenting...OK, let's run with the idea that a large percentage of these mass shooters were unparented or poorly parented (even though I don't know if that has been proven). So we have millions of citizens running around who were poorly parented, with access to all kinds of weapons. How do we deal with this? Do we just have to let it run its course over the next 50 years? Can't we do better than that? And if we don't solve the ongoing problems in society (poverty, drug abuse, etc) that is part of the cause of poor or substandard parenting, is there any hope for a better future?
 
coh said:
So, you really didn't answer the question of "why should these types of weapons be legally available to citizens?"
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You have to be a Licensed Gun Distributor for Full Auto's even if you are a collector - That my friend is no easy task and the reason most full auto guns in any "situation" are illegal arms. It was not long ago they made it so I "think" there might be a good supply of illegal arms still available at a price.

coh said:
How do we deal with this? Do we just have to let it run its course over the next 50 years? Can't we do better than that? And if we don't solve the ongoing problems in society (poverty, drug abuse, etc) that is part of the cause of poor or substandard parenting, is there any hope for a better future?
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No we don't have to let it run its course my friend. Me, I have told many a parent if I see what I saw again I will contact Child Services - Do the parents like me? I don't give a shit honest - funny thing is the kids around here all like me, so perhaps they just need attention?
I honestly see a large amount of murders, performed by teenagers more and more the last few years. Seems older neglected children are dead or dying in prisons... This guy in Vegas they know little about, for all we know his girl friend was cheating on him and he got drunk and went on a suicide mission - things like that nobody will ever control.

Grimmy
 
Zach Smith said:
So in countries where it is quite difficult to acquire a gun, no one is ever murdered with a gun?
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Not even near the tragedies you folks have to endure. Let me be clear I understand your point of view, it's the bad guy not the gun. Unfortunately it seems to be guns are much more readily available in the US. I don't say this cause I think no one should have guns, but don't pretend like this doesn't happen more in the US. Whackos, depressed young People, all have an easier time getting firearms in the US. Seems odd how you folks have a knee jerk reaction to this, it is not a slight against you, just how history has played out.
 
since were still speculating - maybe its parenting, video games or religion - or maybe its the irresponsible way politicians and the media have fueled the division in our country. do statements like this help?

Hayley Geftman-Gold, the network's vice president and senior counsel, took to Facebook after a gunman opened fire at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas, killing at least 58 people and sending more than 500 others to hospitals.

“If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs [sic] will ever do the right thing,” Geftman-Gold wrote in a now-deleted message that was first reported and captured by The Daily Caller.

Geftman-Gold continued: “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc [sic] country music fans often are Republican gun toters [sic].”




what if the shooter was a right wing nutter who suffered from a sense of nationalism run amuck, who sought to bring attention to the godless path the left has our country taking. what do you think the media/political reaction would be?

what if the shooter was a left wing nutter who, fueled by the constant VENOM from the media, sought out revenge against what he viewed as a target composed largely of conservatives. what do you think the media/political reaction would be?

what do those answers say about the responsibility we all play in managing the hate and divisiveness happening in the country right now.
 
watchndsky said:
what if the shooter was a left wing nutter who, fueled by the constant VENOM from the media, sought out revenge against what he viewed as a target composed largely of conservatives. what do you think the media/political reaction would be
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If......
Well, then a country show full of hayseeds and country hicks would be the best place to tag as many trump supporters as possible....and after the last Bernie supporter at the republicans baseball practice, I thought the same....
Hope it's not true, hope I'm wrong, but that's the obvious case here.

Alright, I'm done speculating.
 
Full auto is legal in Nevada...
 
watchndsky said:
since were still speculating - maybe its parenting, video games or religion - or maybe its the irresponsible way politicians and the media have fueled the division in our country. do statements like this help?

Hayley Geftman-Gold, the network's vice president and senior counsel, took to Facebook after a gunman opened fire at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas, killing at least 58 people and sending more than 500 others to hospitals.

“If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs [sic] will ever do the right thing,” Geftman-Gold wrote in a now-deleted message that was first reported and captured by The Daily Caller.

Geftman-Gold continued: “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc [sic] country music fans often are Republican gun toters [sic].”




what if the shooter was a right wing nutter who suffered from a sense of nationalism run amuck, who sought to bring attention to the godless path the left has our country taking. what do you think the media/political reaction would be?

what if the shooter was a left wing nutter who, fueled by the constant VENOM from the media, sought out revenge against what he viewed as a target composed largely of conservatives. what do you think the media/political reaction would be?

what do those answers say about the responsibility we all play in managing the hate and divisiveness happening in the country right now.
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There was NO way this wasn't going to become a giant partisan shit show. Instead of getting to the root of the problem, people on both sides are digging in to their respective bunkers and spewing the typical lip service their respective sides offer up time and time again. Nothing changes, nothing gets done...we just become more divided when we should be coming together in a time of tragedy like this. At the end of the day, I don't care what the nut bag's motive was... I only care that he was able to pull his plan off so successfully.
 
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Dav4 said:
There was NO way this wasn't going to become a giant partisan shit show. Instead of getting to the root of the problem, people on both sides are digging in to their respective bunkers and spewing the typical lip service their respective sides offer up time and time again. Nothing changes, nothing gets done...we just become more divided when we should be coming together in a time of tragedy like this. At the end of the day, I don't care what the nut bag's motive was... I only care that he was able to pull it off so successfully.
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It doesn't have to go there, still just speculation....

What would we be talking about if the guy had a large suitcase full of home made pipe bombs, and he just kept lighting fuses and throwing them off the balcony???
Probably would have done more damage than his gun did.
 
rockm said:
Um, OK. Don't have a license for full auto in many (if any) other states...
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The point is, the guy could have used a box full of homemade pipe bombs, and done exponentially more damage....and every single thing he would've needed is legal.
Get it?
Legality is not the point here.
This discussion is about cultural rot.
 
Dav4 said:
There was NO way this wasn't going to become a giant partisan shit show. Instead of getting to the root of the problem, people on both sides are digging in to their respective bunkers and spewing the typical lip service their respective sides offer up time and time again. Nothing changes, nothing gets done...we just become more divided when we should be coming together in a time of tragedy like this. At the end of the day, I don't care what the nut bag's motive was... I only care that he was able to pull his plan off so successfully.
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Unfortunately true.
 
Dav4 said:
There was NO way this wasn't going to become a giant partisan shit show. Instead of getting to the root of the problem, people on both sides are digging in to their respective bunkers and spewing the typical lip service their respective sides offer up time and time again. Nothing changes, nothing gets done...we just become more divided when we should be coming together in a time of tragedy like this. At the end of the day, I don't care what the nut bag's motive was... I only care that he was able to pull it off so successfully.
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i care what his motivation was because i think that is the root of the problem -not the course of action taken. if we dont figure out what motivates someone to do something so plainly evil - how can we expect to stop them. if history has taught us anything, is that you can kill anyone. a local criminal just stabbed a woman to death with a screwdriver during a breakin - obviously not the first choice of weapons to use, but he used what he had. if its not a gun it will be something else. and weve been very VERY lucky we havent suffered the bombings or chemical/bio attacks that have occurred elsewhere. even if it were possible to remove every single gun in this country - it should be clear that criminals/terrorists would still find a way to get more in or become more creative in their methods.

we WILL continue to gather in crowds and we will go on with life as usual because 1) people forget over time and 2) because they SHOULD move on- these scumbags should not be able to force us in to giving up our rights and freedoms. we deserve much better than that. look how much we have already given up in terms of privacy and freedom after 911 to feel safe.

these bodies werent even cold yet and politicians were already lining up to attack - instead of trying to unify and comfort the country.
 
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