Leveling an Oval Pot - advice appreciated

zero

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Hello fellow potters!

I’m looking for advice on how to level the rim of an oval. I can make slabs for the bottom and throw walls, but when I add the walls and pull the oval form, as you know you inevitably get a tall narrow edge and sloped form in the middle.

I am learning pottery from a more traditional American potter who has no experience with bonsai pot making and I’ve been slacking on coming to you all, because I indeed do need the help. Any advice you can share in this will be very much appreciated. Thanks for your consideration!
 

ABCarve

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Throwing is not my forte but I have done it a number of times with success. You may want to post a video of your technique so that others will see how and why the distortion is happening. There are many ways to skin a cat and picture (video) is worth a thousand words.
 

sorce

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You can do a number of things to get it "back" to level....
But I think it's better to change the process from the beginning, since you will essentially be attempting to perfect the wall, but it technically, physically can not ever be as sound as if you were to use a different process....

Like this one...

Or casting from slip, or using other molds.

The thickness difference, and possible visible thickness difference at the rim, in trying to fix a thrown wall, will always leave the pot subpar.

I believe thrown ovals are subpar, because, I believe in physics. It's just physically true. Not that they can't work, but....there is better.

Sorce
 

zero

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You can do a number of things to get it "back" to level....
But I think it's better to change the process from the beginning, since you will essentially be attempting to perfect the wall, but it technically, physically can not ever be as sound as if you were to use a different process....

Like this one...

Or casting from slip, or using other molds.

The thickness difference, and possible visible thickness difference at the rim, in trying to fix a thrown wall, will always leave the pot subpar.

I believe thrown ovals are subpar, because, I believe in physics. It's just physically true. Not that they can't work, but....there is better.

Sorce
I appreciate very much you sharing but I’m not sure I yet believe a thrown oval is “subpar”. I haven’t yet seen any reason to believe that and believe there are many bonsai potters who use the thrown oval methods for building. I do not believe most of the work I’ve seen is subpar from a baseline quality. I’d be happy to be enlightened though surely.
How do you make ovals sorce?
 

mrcasey

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If I understand the problem correctly, there are a few things you can try:

1. I know that it eliminates some artistic options, but make sure that there is no curvature in the walls and make sure that the walls are
perfectly vertical.

2. Let the ring dry a bit more before coaxing it into an oval - you'll get less sagging and warping. My rings are leather hard when I do that step.

3. Add a lip to your pot by rolling over the top of the rim. Dry the piece upside down.

4. Make a simple leveling device with a needle tool. Watch what Nakano Yukizou (my favorite Tokoname potter) does at the 3-minute mark:
 

sorce

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I appreciate very much you sharing but I’m not sure I yet believe a thrown oval is “subpar”. I haven’t yet seen any reason to believe that and believe there are many bonsai potters who use the thrown oval methods for building. I do not believe most of the work I’ve seen is subpar from a baseline quality. I’d be happy to be enlightened though surely.
How do you make ovals sorce?

Not "subpar" in the eye of the user, or even the longevity of the piece....
But the stretching of the clay, makes it less than as sound as a piece could be with other techniques. Par techniques.

I do like you except cut the walls from slabs.
Same problem you describe.
I started making them with 2 curved outside edges, and 2 short face panels. Gives it a nice look and a bit more ease of building, less of that problem.

Sorce
 

HorseloverFat

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Besides everything else said...

I feel we forget that "up" is straight, too...

Working/pulling your walls upwards will help a great deal in uniformity.

Also .. wait longer before construction...

A decently thought out piece will require 4-5 hours if my ACTUAL work.... But be "in progress" for weeks...

Take your time... The clay won't fire on your table...

You can also STOP-dehydration or even RE-hydrate with a spray bottle and a plastic bag...

Again..Take your time .. less sags/bends/warps/irregularities.

🤓
 

zero

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I’m getting the idea that this is a me problem and not a physical science problem, but I’m going to hold steady in my belief that this happens to everyone and some folks have a methodology that prevents it from being a problem. I’ll attach some photos of the issue as abcarve has suggested. Hopefully you all will be able to assist me in understanding a way to fix the issue. Thanks everyone!
Oh, also I should mention I’m definitely fine to take my time, I’ve been making pottery for 1.5 years now and yes I’ve learned to have some patience with the process, I’m happy to. I’ve turned the piece upside down and wrapped it and when I check on it hopefully it’ll have corrected somewhat but I’m then dealing with the issue in the bottom instead of the top I assume.
45DFE716-07EB-4B4E-A606-89DB4DB3936F.jpeg2184EF2C-D2ED-4528-8781-F0DE46D1FB37.jpeg8A02AED6-6E9A-4BCA-9BB4-C44EA704424C.jpeg
 

HorseloverFat

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this happens to everyone and some folks have a methodology that prevents it from being a problem..
View attachment 470644View attachment 470645View attachment 470646

YES...

Like... "Everyone's Backswing or Jumpshot is different, for personal reasons."..

Or my "Brush strokes" are different than Bob Ross's.. because I feel more comfortable this way.

As long as the end product, is "of quality"...the way you get there is "yours"...
 

HorseloverFat

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I’ve made a slab at the same time I threw the wall. Both are wrapped currently
Interesting...

I tried it like that once.. t'was not for me.

Ended up running into warping issues from trying to put the walls on SLIGHTLY early... Having to "adjust" the walls, which are now, one piece... So any adjustments, alter the entire wall...my clay didn't know which way to... "Go"... D'yaknow what I mean.

I roll out and cut everything at the same time... Let dry until only slightly "moving from gravity pull".. then assemble, from the bottom (minus feet) up.

This basic outline has worked the best for me.

🤓
 

ABCarve

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Have you determined when the inaccuracies have occurred in your process? It could happen when you wire it off the batt or pulling it into an oval. It doesn’t take much to go askew. Personally, from here it doesn’t look too bad.😎 The geometry of the wall (concave convex) can make it worse. In either case it’s still amiss. You’re better off trimming the bottom as to not damage your lip. Flip it onto an absolutely flat surface and scribe a parallel line or use a knife to simply cut it parallel. Use a device like in the video. You need to do this before it gets too hard for the lip to conform to the flat surface.
 

HorseloverFat

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Have you determined when the inaccuracies have occurred in your process? It could happen when you wire it off the batt or pulling it into an oval. It doesn’t take much to go askew. Personally, from here it doesn’t look too bad.😎 The geometry of the wall (concave convex) can make it worse. In either case it’s still amiss. You’re better off trimming the bottom as to not damage your lip. Flip it onto an absolutely flat surface and scribe a parallel line or use a knife to simply cut it parallel. Use a device like in the video. You need to do this before it gets too hard for the lip to conform to the flat surface.
Yes!

Complete piece leveling is something I do when one foot ends up 1/16" higher...(or similar situations)

You set the piece flat on the piece of plaster, spritz it, and move the piece circularly... Sanding the entire bottom plane down (up).
 

August44

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Not trying to steel anyone's thunder here but I do a little pottery now and then and never throw anything. All hand built using one of many plaster molds that I have created from different containers along the way. The largest round is 14" and the smallest is 3.5". Two holes in the middle are used to lift the mold from the clay when dry enough. The two larger molds have metal handles for that purpose. I have rounds, ovals, rectangles, and free form types. I usually put a band around the top for support and use three feet on the bottom. The molds are always there for the next pot.
 

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HorseloverFat

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Not trying to steel anyone's thunder here but I do a little pottery now and then and never throw anything. All hand built using one of many plaster molds that I have created from different containers along the way. The largest round is 14" and the smallest is 3.5". Two holes in the middle are used to lift the mold from the clay when dry enough. The two larger molds have metal handles for that purpose. I have rounds, ovals, rectangles, and free form types. I usually put a band around the top for support and use three feet on the bottom. The molds are always there for the next pot.

Neat!

Molding seems like a cool and fun method. You work looks great! 🤓

I don't ever want to make the same pot twice... So I'd be making a new mold for every pot!
 
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August44

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Neat!

Molding seems like a cool and fun method. You work looks great! 🤓

I don't ever want to make the same pot twice... So I'd be making a new mold for every pot!
Easy to add banding or decoration to pots to change the looks.
 

HorseloverFat

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Easy to add banding or decoration to pots to change the looks.

Sure I can see that! I'm not trying to downplay anything! If it works, it works, and it clearly works for you.

I still think I'd be uncomfortable if I didn't make the original pot the mold was made from... I'd like it to be MY vision... From start to finish... Different than any other piece I made... With different intents and aims.

For me, pottery is much less about producing vessels, and more about expressing myself through the clay medium... Geared towards my bonsai interests.

So I guess methodology is one of the ways intent and creative flow differ.

Everyone has their own way to "art".
 
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