Loblolly Pine—What Next?

[Gabler]

I chopped this loblolly pine (Pinus taeda) two years ago and bent a small twig upward to be a new sacrificial leader. It's now almost the girth of the lower trunk, so it's ready to be removed. At some point, I also need to start moving the tree into progressively smaller containers. It's currently in a fifty gallon grow bag, and I plan to reduce the root ball and move it into a thirty gallon bag. Would you remove the top and move it to a somewhat smaller container all at once or perform one operation and then the other in the following year?

 

[Gabler]

Oh, one other thing. I plan to chop it around the same time the deciduous trees start changing colors. Does that sound like the correct timing? I've never really done much with conifers, so it's harder for me to gauge the correct timing for various operations.

 

[TomP]

How tall do you want the ultimate tree to be? You have a lot of nice growth at the base, I would be tempted to chop it just above that and then you can develop good taper and build it from there. Wait until it is dormant. I would do it around Christmas time (that is when I have a week of from work and can mess with my trees, but it works well) Also, you should start candle pruning to develop ramification. I candle prune them twice a season in Alabama, but I suspect you should do it once as your growing season is shorter. Do it about two weeks after you would do a black pine in your area as these guys grow quickly. You can repot in the spring as normal. It is still young--has its juvenile bark--so it will bounce back quickly. They typically start developing adult bark at around 8 years in my experience. I am still experimenting with them but I think loblollies are really good subjects (and I grow a bunch of different pine species)

 

[TomP]

Here is one I have been working on for a few years. As you can see you can get pretty short needles with aggressive candle pruning

 

[Gabler]

Good to know. And if I chop it this fall, would it be safe to repot in the spring? I wouldn't hesitate to do that to a deciduous tree, but I've read pines need a slower approach.

 

[TomP]

For a young loblolly it should be fine, They are pretty indestructible

 

[TomP]

Dont bare root it. Don't remove more than half the roots

 

[Gabler]

Dont bare root it. Don't remove more than half the roots

I bare rooted it at collection in 2021. You can get away with that with young loblolly pines. It's currently in a blend of about 90% perlite and 10% peat. In other words, I have no need to mess with the middle of the root ball in the foreseeable future. I'll be stepping it down from a fifty gallon grow bag to a thirty gallon grow bag. Once it's established in a thirty gallon grow bag, I'll step it down again into a training pot, then finally a bonsai pot.

At the moment, I just want to make sure I'm not doing too much too fast by repotting it next spring, just a few months after a drastic cutback.

 

[Gabler]

I candle prune them twice a season in Alabama, but I suspect you should do it once as your growing season is shorter.

Does that mean you're effectively treating it as a triple flush pine, or are you just shortening the candles and not decandling the tree completely?

 

[TomP]

I am effectively treating it as a triple flush pine and decandling competely twice in a season. I am being careful however. I have one last year that I only decandled once because the early growth was not as aggressive as normal, so I waited until after I decandled my black pines to decandle it and it did well. I only have been growing them for about 10 years or so, so I am still learning, but they are much more vigorous for me than any other pines I grow. I do not have any old specimens however, so don't know how they will respond once they get more mature.
I really do think it will be an excellent species for bonsai and definitely encourage more people to try them so we can all learn together

 

[eugenev2]

I am effectively treating it as a triple flush pine and decandling competely twice in a season. I am being careful however. I have one last year that I only decandled once because the early growth was not as aggressive as normal, so I waited until after I decandled my black pines to decandle it and it did well. I only have been growing them for about 10 years or so, so I am still learning, but they are much more vigorous for me than any other pines I grow. I do not have any old specimens however, so don't know how they will respond once they get more mature.
I really do think it will be an excellent species for bonsai and definitely encourage more people to try them so we can all learn together

Random questions here, these species do they thicken up relatively quickly (in comparison to japanese black pine at least) and become unbendable at about 2 years old already?
I have a few mystery pines here that i grew from seed and found random seedling, which i've not been able to identify but they seem to have similar characteristics and are know to be grown in the forestry industry locally

 

[Gabler]

Random questions here, these species do they thicken up relatively quickly (in comparison to japanese black pine at least) and become unbendable at about 2 years old already?
I have a few mystery pines here that i grew from seed and found random seedling, which i've not been able to identify but they seem to have similar characteristics and are know to be grown in the forestry industry locally

Yes. Everything above the lower mass of foliage was grown in less than three years. The sacrificial leader is about two inches thick, and the tree is about nine feet tall. The base is about three inches thick. The tree's siblings, which germinated in 2019, are about six inches thick, growing in my parents' yard. There's a reason most houses are built from loblolly pine. It grows fast.

 

[TomP]

Random questions here, these species do they thicken up relatively quickly (in comparison to japanese black pine at least) and become unbendable at about 2 years old already?
I have a few mystery pines here that i grew from seed and found random seedling, which i've not been able to identify but they seem to have similar characteristics and are know to be grown in the forestry industry locally

They thicken probably a little more slowly than black pines and are very flexible even at 10 years

 

[Gabler]

They thicken probably a little more slowly than black pines and are very flexible even at 10 years

I assume you're talking about the rate of growth in a smaller container?

 

[Gabler]

I should clarify that my seedlings in one-gallon containers are much slower growing. This one is growing lightning fast because it's in a bag that functions a little bit like a raised growing bed.

 

[eugenev2]

They thicken probably a little more slowly than black pines and are very flexible even at 10 years

Ah thanks, probably not this one then

 

[TomP]

I should clarify that my seedlings in one-gallon containers are much slower growing. This one is growing lightning fast because it's in a bag that functions a little bit like a raised growing bed.

I grow my young ones in pond baskets sunk in a raised bed of mulch. Black pines tend to thicken faster I think. Results may vary of course

 

[Gabler]

I grow my young ones in pond baskets sunk in a raised bed of mulch. Black pines tend to thicken faster I think. Results may vary of course

Gotcha. Our respective answers appeared to be saying opposite things, and that caused me some confusion. Loblolly pine is fast-growing, but in your observation it is not quite as fast as Japanese black pine. In addition, I would say that after two years, a loblolly pine branch is no longer flexible because it is no longer a thin twig, but it remains extremely flexible for its girth, compared to other species of tree (especially hardwoods).

 

[TomP]

Gotcha. Our respective answers appeared to be saying opposite things, and that caused me some confusion. Loblolly pine is fast-growing, but in your observation it is not quite as fast as Japanese black pine. In addition, I would say that after two years, a loblolly pine branch is no longer flexible because it is no longer a thin twig, but it remains extremely flexible for its girth, compared to other species of tree (especially hardwoods).

Yes, much more flexible than a limber pine for example

 

[Dabbler]

I recently started working with this species and I got to say they GROW like crazy

I'm finding that even this one I repotted, it put of two flushes without me even touching it, they were weaker but it still did it. I also trunk chopped min in mid to late winter and it did fine.