Lots of Bonsai stuff happening online today!

There is in this country a large number of bonsai enthusiasts that are more bonsai collectors than developers of bonsai.

I don't think this is true at all from what I've seen. I would estimate that 95-99% of the bonsai enthusiasts are people who don't buy expensive finished trees, but amateur and serious hobbyists who are doing the work themselves or under the instruction of someone. This is true in Japan, but in the U.S. I know of very few people that buy finished trees and have a professional do all the work on them. Yes those people are out there, but not in large numbers.
 
I'm sorry, but this couldn't be more wrong. Where you get your information is everything!!! In bonsai for example, we should get our information from people who have the best trees!
Nope. I disagree. You can learn something from everyone. From some people you learn how to do things. From others you learn how not to do things. What matters are the results you produce.
 
You are right, I may have painted with too broad a brush. But in times past it was a somewhat common event around here. You would have people spending big bucks on material, some partially finished trees, and then criticize those who don't do it the way they do it. This is not so pervasive as it once was. Of course this is a good thing. We have had a tendency in the past to cling on to our particular idea to the exclusion of all others, even going so far as condemning other points of view. You may see this in the subject of soil.

The statement that you can learn from the people that have the best trees is rather vague. I guess it depends on the meaning of, having the best trees. You can go out and purchase world class trees, if you have a world class income, you can even hire some master to take care of your trees for you and do all of the maintenance and styling work. That does not necessarily mean that you know dog crap from tofu about the care and styling of bonsai. It just means that you have a love for bonsai and the resources to indulge it at a high level. I am not saying that this is bad, it is of course not bad. Every art has it's supporters, I am simply trying to clarify what was said, in essence equating great trees with great talent and great knowledge.
 
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What if your teacher dies?

What if I admire the trees of a person in Florida.....or California?

Sorce
 
The statement that you can learn from the people that have the best trees is rather vague. I guess it depends on the meaning of, having the best trees. You can go out and purchase world class trees, if you have a world class income, you can even hire some master to take care of your trees for you and do all of the maintenance and styling work. That does not necessarily mean that you know dog crap from tofu about the care and styling of bonsai.

Vance, I think you know what I meant. No, we should not be learning from the people who buy the most expensive trees and don't take care of them. We should be learning from the people who create and maintain the best trees.
 
I was not trying to nit pick, I was just trying to be accurate. It is surprising how sometimes arguments can hinge on the meaning of one word or thought, nothing personal.
 
I'm sorry, but this couldn't be more wrong. Where you get your information is everything!!! In bonsai for example, we should get our information from people who have the best trees!
Subjective at best
 
I don't disagree about getting information from people who have the best trees and has been able to keep them the best over time. We had an individual in our club a number of years ago who got a lot of money from an insurance policy. He loved bonsai and went out and purchased thousands of dolars worth of trees, really beautiful spectacular trees. They all died within two years. Do you think we should be listening to him?
 
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