Maximum Requirements

[sorce]

What's odd is I have several of these in the same garden but only this one attacked.

Are the others so sparse?

I would try to keep more foliage/health as a preventative measure.

@sparklemotion I dig that!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Are the others so sparse?

I would try to keep more foliage/health as a preventative measure.

@sparklemotion I dig that!

Sorce

Sorce, think about this: we have taken many of the trees we use for bonsai out of their natural habitats. In their natural habitats, they have evolved to survive. But in a foreign habitat, maybe not so much.

Consider the bristlecone pines. Up in the mountains where conditions are harsh, they can live for thousands of years. Because the conditions are so harsh, the things that normally attack trees cannot survive. But a bristlecone pine that grows down in the valley will thrive, but only for a short time. Eventually, the insects, molds, and fungus get a foothold, and slowly drain the strength away, eventually killing the bristlecones. The trees in the valleys where conditions would appear to be better, are actually worse, in the long run, for the bristlecones.

The same is true for our bonsai. In pots, on our shelves, with plentiful water, and fertilizer, they ought to thrive. Yet, sometimes they don’t. They’re out of their natural habitat. They’re subject to stressors we don’t know about, or fully understand. They’re vulnerable to unfamiliar insects and diseases.

Since we are growing them in an un-natural state, we have to provide extra protection. Just as a tropical tree would die in a Chicago winter, trees taken out of their natural environments have no immunity to the local insects and fungi. And, these days, the insects and diseases might be new invaders from the other side of the world.

 

[Woocash]

I feel the point has been missed by some here. Yes, the little trees in pots need more babying than those in the ground, but is not about maintaining equilibrium and accepting imperfection?

Maybe I’m looking at it all wrong and those who have trees worth a fair bob are merely protecting their investments.

Personally, I’d love an old ash with a huge bleeding canker. They’re often the most interesting

 

[sorce]

vulnerable

I also only use what grows well here.

Then again, that's just in this stage I've gotten to, where I can keep things alive at all, moving back around to other species with this new found freedom will happen, they will also likely thrive.

Seems some folks think this is only about not using 'cides, that is merely a part, oddly, the part I am most sure of.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

a fair bob are merely protecting their investments.

Blah that, you get it.

I am also protecting my investment. Up to and including my actual children.

Point is where folks use the shit sometimes, or, "just when"....

Elimination is key, full, total elimination.

My entire garden is like an episode of myth busters. All are welcome to visit !

I know where conventional accepted knowledge comes from since it is there, merely cloaked in mostly bullshit.

Sorce

 

[Sansui]

I also only use what grows well here.

Then again, that's just in this stage I've gotten to, where I can keep things alive at all, moving back around to other species with this new found freedom will happen, they will also likely thrive.

Seems some folks think this is only about not using 'cides, that is merely a part, oddly, the part I am most sure of.

Sorce

I found this conifer article that supports planting conditions and species selection as a best defense strategy.

How to Prevent Fungal Diseases in Conifers | American Conifer Society

Find out what works and what does not in the battle against fungi.

conifersociety.org

 

[sorce]

I found this conifer article that supports planting conditions and species selection as a best defense strategy.

How to Prevent Fungal Diseases in Conifers | American Conifer Society

Find out what works and what does not in the battle against fungi.

conifersociety.org

That's a good article! Thanks!

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

Hmm, so the problem is freely draining and water retention.

Thanks to the forestry officers who took the time to show
and explain that [ above ] with the Caribbean / Honduran pine blend.

Tried an acid lover- Tamarind - in basalt / granite gravel from
Canada. It did poorly.
Suspect too much Alkali in the gravel.

Trinidad is supposed to have an acid clay top soil.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Adair M]

I found this conifer article that supports planting conditions and species selection as a best defense strategy.

How to Prevent Fungal Diseases in Conifers | American Conifer Society

Find out what works and what does not in the battle against fungi.

conifersociety.org

What he’s saying is conifers don’t like wet feet. This is common knowledge. The easiest way to achieve this is via inorganic soil.

 

[coh]

What he’s saying is conifers don’t like wet feet. This is common knowledge. The easiest way to achieve this is via inorganic soil.

Yeah, all well and good. But if you're surrounded by sick conifers in the landscape that you can't control (like around here, I can't just go into people's yards and cut down their sick pines), those trees are producing vast numbers of spores that are drifting onto my bonsai. I can do everything in my power to keep my trees healthy, but it's just like when the flu is going around - the more people who have it, the greater the chance I'm going to get it. Maybe I have a generally good immune system but get run down/overtired or don't get enough sleep and boom - flu! Similarly for the pine bonsai - get the right conditions - cool and wet as the new needles are coming out - and there will be needle cast. Heck, I get some needle cast even though I apply fungicides on a regular basis.

Bugs are different, if you keep an eye on your trees you can almost always catch an outbreak before it gets too bad. But fungal issues, you don't know the tree is infected until it's too late.

 

[Sansui]

That's a good article! Thanks!

Sorce

Your welcome. On a side note it appears the ACS publication is branching out with some bonsai articles. Yes, pun intended!

 

[Underdog]

Are the others so sparse?

I would try to keep more foliage/health as a preventative measure.

@sparklemotion I dig that!

Sorce

Nope. This is her brother. Fine and dandy. I've pinched off a fair amount of dead or dying tips lately trying to control the problem.
This tree was trimmed, wired and repotted this summer (during a waining moon) which could have weakened it I'm sure but no scale then.
I can't imagine trying to manually remove the thousands of scale or even approach getting them all with a paint brush. Maybe spraying but...
Can't get the picture to upload but it's healthy and happy.

And to the title of this thread, the maximum requirement should be you have an interest in bonsai.

 

[Anthony]

Tried companion planting ?
Stuck a Chinese serissa cuting in a pot of green onions.
Thrived for 3 years.
Removed planted in a pot - leaf cutting ants killed it.

Started putting a green onion in a pot.
Trim down for omlets.
No leaf cutters.
Also a fine thyme.
No pests- not even grasshoppers.

Both plants can be removed before exhibition,
or of the green onion cut down.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Atom#28]

I have to force you down the rabbithole for a more in depth Learning experience.

Sorce

Found this. But turns out it was a wormhole:

"Parasitic wasp larva feeding on a tomato hornworm caterpillar."




From this website
How To Use Predator Insects to Control Garden Pests

How To Use Predator Insects to Control Garden Pests - Today's Homeowner

One of the best ways to control pests in your garden organically is through the use of beneficial predatory insects. Sometimes all you need to do is encourage the natural predators that already live in your yard; but you can also take steps to increase the population. Read on to find out more.

todayshomeowner.com

 

[sorce]

The easiest way to achieve this is via inorganic soil.

Also not fully true since an inorganic soil can be left wet and/or watered too much.

And to the title of this thread, the maximum requirement should be you have an interest in bonsai.

Amen! Minimum too!

How To Use Predator Insects to Control Garden Pests

I read about introducing foreign predators which can bring foreign disease which will in turn ruin the balance.

Another plug for FULLY giving up Any kind of action.

The balance already exists...
IF
We don't ruin it.

Stay the course, do NOtHING!

Sorce

 

[Atom#28]

The balance already exists...
IF
We don't ruin it.

Stay the course, do NOtHING!

Sorce

I'm sticking to only native species for at least the first few years. In my estimation, that'll help mitigate many factors that would otherwise fuck up the balance in my collection.

 

[sparklemotion]

I can't imagine trying to manually remove the thousands of scale or even approach getting them all with a paint brush. Maybe spraying but...

To be clear -- the point of the paintbrush is to get all of the foliage wet with alcohol, which will kill the scale (even the adults) on contact. Systemic insecticides will be slower, and other contact-based insecticides (neem, malathion, pyrethrins, etc) have trouble penetrating the scale exoskeleton. I recommend neem only for after you've killed most of the adults because it will help with any crawlers, plus any adults that do survive the alcohol may be weakened enough to succumb to the smothering effects of the neem.

On broadleaved species, I get a certain amount of enjoyment from using a qtip to simultaneously kill and remove each scale one by one. That's not happening on a juniper, especially that juniper.

 

[Adair M]

Yeah, all well and good. But if you're surrounded by sick conifers in the landscape that you can't control (like around here, I can't just go into people's yards and cut down their sick pines), those trees are producing vast numbers of spores that are drifting onto my bonsai. I can do everything in my power to keep my trees healthy, but it's just like when the flu is going around - the more people who have it, the greater the chance I'm going to get it. Maybe I have a generally good immune system but get run down/overtired or don't get enough sleep and boom - flu! Similarly for the pine bonsai - get the right conditions - cool and wet as the new needles are coming out - and there will be needle cast. Heck, I get some needle cast even though I apply fungicides on a regular basis.

Bugs are different, if you keep an eye on your trees you can almost always catch an outbreak before it gets too bad. But fungal issues, you don't know the tree is infected until it's too late.

Oh, I agree with spraying and/or using systemics to protect your trees. I was merely interpreting what the article was saying, and applying it to bonsai.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Sorce, think about this: we have taken many of the trees we use for bonsai out of their natural habitats. In their natural habitats, they have evolved to survive. But in a foreign habitat, maybe not so much.

Consider the bristlecone pines. Up in the mountains where conditions are harsh, they can live for thousands of years. Because the conditions are so harsh, the things that normally attack trees cannot survive. But a bristlecone pine that grows down in the valley will thrive, but only for a short time. Eventually, the insects, molds, and fungus get a foothold, and slowly drain the strength away, eventually killing the bristlecones. The trees in the valleys where conditions would appear to be better, are actually worse, in the long run, for the bristlecones.

The same is true for our bonsai. In pots, on our shelves, with plentiful water, and fertilizer, they ought to thrive. Yet, sometimes they don’t. They’re out of their natural habitat. They’re subject to stressors we don’t know about, or fully understand. They’re vulnerable to unfamiliar insects and diseases.

Since we are growing them in an un-natural state, we have to provide extra protection. Just as a tropical tree would die in a Chicago winter, trees taken out of their natural environments have no immunity to the local insects and fungi. And, these days, the insects and diseases might be new invaders from the other side of the world.

This statement is full of utter bullshit. It's like you just make this shit up and spew it as you go along. Please site your scientific data backing up your argument.... I can't wait to see it

Actually, Bristlecones make for excellent landscape trees in a variety of ranges - mainly 4 - 7 - and are tolerable to varying soil conditions as long as the receive full sun.

 

[Adair M]

This statement is full of utter bullshit. It's like you just make this shit up and spew it as you go along. Please site your scientific data backing up your argument.... I can't wait to see it

Actually, Bristlecones make for excellent landscape trees in a variety of ranges - mainly 4 - 7 - and are tolerable to varying soil conditions as long as the receive full sun.

Show me some 3000 year old Bristlecone trees that aren’t up in their harsh environments.

They will thrive, for a while, in milder climates.

By the way, it was my daughter who pointed this out to me. While she was at the University of Georgia, she took a summer class in Geology, which they offered over the summer. It was a traveling hands-on class. They started in Brunswick, Ga, studying the salt marsh and ocean, and worked their way west to California and back. Pretty cool class.

one of their stops was to visit the Bristlecones. And she was able to go see the oldest tree (that they don’t normally reveal the location). As a part of her studies, they were taught all about how they Come to be able to live so long.

And part of it is because where it’s harsh, they grow slowly. Super slowly. Some years, they don’t grow at all! This makes for an extremely dense and hard wood that’s really tough. Tough against winds, storms, snows, and also against insects, disease, and fungus.

Down in the valley, where conditions are more favorable, they grow fast. At least, relatively fast compared the the high mountain trees. But the wood they make isn’t as hard. They’re more like regular trees. That are more vulnerable to all those things I mentioned above. Sure, they’ll grow. But not for thousands of years. Hundreds maybe.