My plans for winter

[Steve C]

First off I know people probably get tired of the "winter help" posts this time of year But since this is the first winter I have had tree's that need a dormant period it's going to take more effort than last year where I could just bring in the tropicals.

I've used the search feature here as well as lots of article online but I just want to see if my plans sound okay to the rest of you folks here as well. I'll tryin keep it short as I can and just give the pertinent info needed.

My location- SE Michigan (Zone 6A)

Trees that will stay outside- Boxwood, Japanese quince, Crape Myrtle, Althea, Azalea, Burning bush.

Plan- is to build a plywood box 4ft x 4ft x 4ft with a lid. The box will be located on a 4ft x 4ft concrete slab that buts up to the back of my house (back of house faces South). I figure that way it will stay a few degrees warmer because of some radiant heat from the heated house. I'll also plan to put a small 3" x 6" plastic window in the box with a thermometer in it so I can monitor temps inside without opening the lid to check.

Main questions are.....Should I consider lining the inside with any sort of insulation? or would that keep it too warm? Should I cover the ground and pots with mulch? Any forseen issues with the box being placed on the concrete slab I mentioned and just an open bottom to the box? or should it have a bottom to insulate it from the slab at all for any reason?

Thanks.

 

[JudyB]

The mulch is something you should do. The lid will keep the snow from getting in and watering your plants naturally, and keep it from insulating your trees, it's a great insulator. Unless you don't get snow cover there, but your in MI, I imagine you do. The lid will also trap heat on hot days, and you'll likely have heat issues. I would do a mesh lid, if you're trying to keep critters out. A remote thermometer can help you keep track, so you don't have to go out to look. I don't know your zone well, but the crape myrtle may not be hardy outside in your zone. I can't keep them outside here. Maybe you could do a heat mat under, with a thermostat and probe to keep the soil around freezing. That's what I do in my cold storage house under my trees.

 

[fourteener]

If your slab is already in place there isn't much you can do, but I always recommend storing your stuff on the north or east side of your home or in the shadiest portion of your property. What you don't want is the sun warming things up prematurely. The south side of your house might be the worst side unless of course you have a lot of shade there.

As far as insulation goes, I use it, but Im a lot colder than you. I line the inside of my concrete block box with the pink foam insulation. I don't insulate the floor of that. I do pile bags of leaves around it and on top of the wood top. With snow covering it all, it's a nice little insulated room. I also set a tray of devon in there incase a little destroyer also finds this little insulated slice of heaven. I also make sure to spray all those trees with a fungicide as you are now putting them all so close together.

 

[M. Frary]

I go with the north side also. This year I'm putting my trees behind the shed with bales of straw on the other 3 sides to keep wind down. The trees sit on a bed of straw. Then I'll cover the pots with straw. The top will be open to the elements so snow can cover the trees the rest of the way. The whole thing will be surrounded by chicken wire to keep the larger animals out. I toss in moth balls to keep the little ones out. I actually want my trees to freeze and stay that way until spring.

 

[Steve C]

Only problem with is I really don't have much other option than the south side. My house is a bungalow style with houses on both sides right next door so no way to put anything on either side of the house so that rules out East&West, and the North is the front yard so I'm pretty much stuck with the back of the house which is South. If keeping the sun off of the box is the main reason to avoid the South side then I wouldn't be against building some sort of small sun shade to keep the sun off the box if that would help?

Would I really want to do a screen lid though with as cold as it can get here? Last year we had record snow with 94.8" total and quite a few days in a row well below freezing. Some even under 0F. From what they are saying this winter here is supposed to be another bad one as well

Thanks for the tip on the Crape Myrtle. That one was a gift this summer from a friend so I knew it was gonna be a bit of trouble. I'll have to do some more investigating about what to do with that one this winter for sure.

 

[Steve C]

I go with the north side also. This year I'm putting my trees behind the shed with bales of straw on the other 3 sides to keep wind down. The trees sit on a bed of straw. Then I'll cover the pots with straw. The top will be open to the elements so snow can cover the trees the rest of the way. The whole thing will be surrounded by chicken wire to keep the larger animals out. I toss in moth balls to keep the little ones out. I actually want my trees to freeze and stay that way until spring.

I see your in Fairview Mike so you had the same sort of cold/snow I had here in Mi last winter. Did you lose any trees at all last winter doing it that way? I know you probably had a bit more snow than us down here in this part of the state so if yours fared well then maybe a screen lid would be fine for me?

 

[Jester217300]

I don't know your zone well, but the crape myrtle may not be hardy outside in your zone. I can't keep them outside here. Maybe you could do a heat mat under, with a thermostat and probe to keep the soil around freezing. That's what I do in my cold storage house under my trees.

This is the difficult one. Crape need cold dormancy but can't survive the cold winters in MI. Temperate species are easy, tropical species are (relatively) easy, crape in colder climates are difficult.

I'll be eager to hear what you do with it and how it responds. I'm local to you and have refused to buy one so far because I don't know how I would winter it. But I would really love to have one, they're beautiful.

 

[M. Frary]

Actually last year just sat all trees on the ground on the north side of the house. Didn't lose any to cold but the deer and rabbits had their way. I don't know how much snow we had but it was measurable in feet. Once my trees are frozen everything but wind protection is out of my hands. I do have some trees zoned for 5 but they made it just fine. Mainly Chinese elms. All others are for my area.

 

[Steve C]

Actually last year just sat all trees on the ground on the north side of the house. Didn't lose any to cold but the deer and rabbits had their way. I don't know how much snow we had but it was measurable in feet. Once my trees are frozen everything but wind protection is out of my hands. I do have some trees zoned for 5 but they made it just fine. Mainly Chinese elms. All others are for my area.

Interesting. Maybe with the exception of the myrtle I'm over thinking this then with my plans.

 

[Jester217300]

If they have been local for a winter already and are cold hardy they should be good. Extra protection can't hurt, however, and you could still loose stuff, but being local really helps make wintering easy.

If you bring something in from another climate you always want to baby it the first winter. I always recommend to do this during spring or summer as the acclimation process of fall into winter is really important. I killed some warmer climate trees by shipping them to MI in winter.

 

[M. Frary]

I have to agree with Jester. A little added protection can't hurt and we don't know what winter will be like till winter gets here. I added the straw this year because it will also help keep the trees cold in the spring when it starts to warm up. That way they don't come out of dormancy too early. It insulates both ways. Wood chips work just fine too.

 

[Steve C]

After thinking about it today, I still plan to build it, but I think you guys had a good point about it warming up maybe a bit much since it faces South. So I still can only put it in that South spot but I believe I might just omit the top/lid and in place of that just put an angled piece of sun shade cloth or something like that. That way I won't have to worry about it heating up and then cooling down through the day/night, it'll just stay cold then. Will do the chips/mulch as well.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate the tips. Hopefully all my little trees come through this winter. Although after doing some more reading on the Crape Myrtle I am quite concerned about what to do with that one now.

 

[JudyB]

Although after doing some more reading on the Crape Myrtle I am quite concerned about what to do with that one now.

Can you not do a small heat mat or heat cable under that one? Here is a link to a thermostat, that has a low of 30. You can get a slightly more expensive one that goes lower. When the temp gets to 30 it comes on, and above it turns the mat or cable off. Worth thinking about, I have had great success with this plan. The one I use is the TP130 about halfway down the page.

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/controls.shtml

 

[Cadillactaste]

After thinking about it today, I still plan to build it, but I think you guys had a good point about it warming up maybe a bit much since it faces South. So I still can only put it in that South spot but I believe I might just omit the top/lid and in place of that just put an angled piece of sun shade cloth or something like that. That way I won't have to worry about it heating up and then cooling down through the day/night, it'll just stay cold then. Will do the chips/mulch as well.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate the tips. Hopefully all my little trees come through this winter. Although after doing some more reading on the Crape Myrtle I am quite concerned about what to do with that one now.

The shade cloth sounds like a great idea...

Some can winter crape myrtle well...Judy has never had issues. But, the fear of die back on an established tree concerned me overly much. If you go about it right...I see no reason you can't have success. I would look into the suggestion of a heat pad. Judy can direct you into the right type...it might be your saving grace in wintering yours. Living in the north as you do. You would need a thermostat on it as well...pick her brain. I am sure she can give you some amazing advice. Since you have one...you might as well give it a good shot of attempting to winter with success. Wishing you good luck.

 

[Steve C]

I just saved the link to the thermostat, I'm leaving for a fishing trip for the weekend in about an hour but when I get back I may go go ahead and order that thermostat. As to the mat itself is there a certain heat mat you would suggest as well? I've never used a heat mat before so no idea which one I would buy.

 

[JudyB]

Here are links to my two favorite mats. The first are larger, but cheaper (for the size), the second one is smaller and far more durable, more expensive per inch, but cheaper overall....

http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/s...Id=-1&division=GrowersSupply&productId=600926

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/commercial-propagating-mat/heat-mats-seeding

If I were doing an outside setup and only needed to use under a couple trees, I'd get the second one.
Happy fishing!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Just curious if you have your set up ready for your myrtle. Wishing you the best of luck with it. Waiting to see if others besides Judy up north have any luck with them. I'm a bit nervous with them if I must admit it.

 

[RickMartin]

After thinking about it today, I still plan to build it, but I think you guys had a good point about it warming up maybe a bit much since it faces South. So I still can only put it in that South spot but I believe I might just omit the top/lid and in place of that just put an angled piece of sun shade cloth or something like that. That way I won't have to worry about it heating up and then cooling down through the day/night, it'll just stay cold then. Will do the chips/mulch as well.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate the tips. Hopefully all my little trees come through this winter. Although after doing some more reading on the Crape Myrtle I am quite concerned about what to do with that one now.

Be careful on the shade cloth, at any angle, to much snow can bring it down. Snow carries a lot of weight.

Rick