Velodog2
Chumono
Ah it's that hard line where the bark has been cut that persists for years if not forever in a ring above where the new roots emerge. I hate it.
New auction maples
- Thread starter Velodog2
- Start date
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
I've not heard of this cosmetic problem.
Here's one air layer of mine, and I don't see the line you're talking about.
Here's one air layer of mine, and I don't see the line you're talking about.
Velodog2
Chumono
That's a really nice layer! Lots of fine roots.
I don't think I can produce a pic of the scarring I'm thinking of right now. I may not even be right about it resulting from layering. It could possibly emerge on yours where I've indicated, where you can still see the cut bark. It's possible it appears on cuttings also.
I don't think I can produce a pic of the scarring I'm thinking of right now. I may not even be right about it resulting from layering. It could possibly emerge on yours where I've indicated, where you can still see the cut bark. It's possible it appears on cuttings also.
Velodog2
Chumono
Here is a blow-up of a base of a maple I have. I didn't propagate it but my best guess is it was grown from a cutting. It's not an ideal example due to the moss obscuring it, but you can see the line I am describing. What is it from?
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
Yes, I can see the line. Not really sure what it's from. I guess I've never paid much attention to those lines, and they've never bothered me much. Could be from air layer or a large root that was once there but then removed?
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
I'm not sure how long they take to fade away either. I typed in the search bar "valavanis " and "kotohime" There is a large one that's Bill's and others that are his friend's. They're mature examples of trees and none have that crease mark. I suppose by the time the surface root is developed well that crease will be gone.
Velodog2
Chumono
I called up a Valavanis video on dwarf maples and took this screen shot of his Kashima. The line is very pronounced. Some of the other maples had it, some did not. I find it very vulgar. But maybe unavoidable. This tree is obviously a long way from a cutting, but the line is not going away soon. So maybe I shouldn't worry about it.
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
RKatzin
Omono
I think what your seeing is grafting scar, the point where the scion and the rootstock join. Many of the hybrid types do not do well on their own roots.
I was always under the impression graft scars were taboo, then I saw one on a shishigashira in a book, by someone very well known. I'm forced to rethink my rigid stance.
I was always under the impression graft scars were taboo, then I saw one on a shishigashira in a book, by someone very well known. I'm forced to rethink my rigid stance.
Velodog2
Chumono
I don't think that is a graft. I believe bill said they were all cutting grown. I know the one I showed was. The nursery I obtained it from does not do grafting.
RKatzin
Omono
Then I would guess it is an old wire scar. Apparently they will persist indefinitely, if the wire is allowed to bite into the bark. For reference I am looking at page 46 of the 2nd US National Bonsai Exhibition book.
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
Give about 30 years, and I'll report back.
Pachycaul
Mame
It also may just be a natural growth phenomenon. Compression growth expresses itself as pleats and seams, such as what gives curly maple its curl, and crotch grain that radiating cathedral window figure. Fissures and lines could just be natural growth. Or not.
Velodog2
Chumono
I am so interested in this question I may experiment with these seedlings by only layering one of them and seeing how they compare with time.
gallina1594
Shohin
I cant remember where but there was a thread talking about this.
FWIW..
The threads conclusion was: the reason we see this scar is because in nature the roots that we desire, are often beneath the surface. The scar is the natural root line where the tree would normally have soil
FWIW..
The threads conclusion was: the reason we see this scar is because in nature the roots that we desire, are often beneath the surface. The scar is the natural root line where the tree would normally have soil
Velodog2
Chumono
Re: conclusion
I remain unconvinced but await more data.
I remain unconvinced but await more data.
My theory as to why the line remains is that when you air layer you have to cut through the outer layer of bark to get to the interior cambium where the tree transports its nutients up and down, right? The new roots that grow obviously can't start from the dead outer layer of bark cells that the tree uses to protect itself- they must start from the living cambium cells underneath, right? Unless the new roots bark up enough to blend in with the old, dead original bark or if enough of the original trunk bark sluffs off to get down to the thickness of the new root bark there will always be that shelf of bark above the layer roots.
In post #23 it's pretty clear to see that the roots on the right side of that tree are growing out from under the bark, leaving a black ridge between the more mature bark above and the newer roots below. That black line is dead scar tissue and it aint gonna heal! Just like if a human has a heart surgery or knee surgery or a C-section or something. The scar from that major operation will most likely always be there. It won't tan the same as your regular skin, it will have a different texture, density, color etc. It's just the way it is.
Granted, some trees have different bark characteristics that might make the transition less noticeable or even impossible to notice to the naked eye. But in the cases where that line won't go away, it might be ok to let the moss grow up over it a little. And If you have a pet peeve about moss growing up too, you might just have to get over it...
In post #23 it's pretty clear to see that the roots on the right side of that tree are growing out from under the bark, leaving a black ridge between the more mature bark above and the newer roots below. That black line is dead scar tissue and it aint gonna heal! Just like if a human has a heart surgery or knee surgery or a C-section or something. The scar from that major operation will most likely always be there. It won't tan the same as your regular skin, it will have a different texture, density, color etc. It's just the way it is.
Granted, some trees have different bark characteristics that might make the transition less noticeable or even impossible to notice to the naked eye. But in the cases where that line won't go away, it might be ok to let the moss grow up over it a little. And If you have a pet peeve about moss growing up too, you might just have to get over it...
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I think if you rub that line down in little bits over the years it can blend in.
@Velodog2 I liked that post in September, but since, I've grown a much deeper hatred for BwW.
Likely due to the black and yellow garbage always strewn up my block from the shit hole they built down the way.
That said....(No offense)...
I don't understand how folks can actually patronize these local fucking tourist traps.
Lotta TV's, half naked pretend Scott chick's, uhhh...pick your distraction!
Gambling....etc....
It's all to keep your mind off the fact that you are overpaying for shitty food!
Had you stayed home that day.....
You could have spent....what....another $100 on a tree/trees.
Just a thought!
Sorce
@Velodog2 I liked that post in September, but since, I've grown a much deeper hatred for BwW.
Likely due to the black and yellow garbage always strewn up my block from the shit hole they built down the way.
That said....(No offense)...
I don't understand how folks can actually patronize these local fucking tourist traps.
Lotta TV's, half naked pretend Scott chick's, uhhh...pick your distraction!
Gambling....etc....
It's all to keep your mind off the fact that you are overpaying for shitty food!
Had you stayed home that day.....
You could have spent....what....another $100 on a tree/trees.
Just a thought!
Sorce
Velodog2
Chumono
What I did not expect in this thread was a diatribe against BW3! Made me smile tho ...
I hate them too but I need wings. Those little things barely qualify and the sauces are never quite right but it will just have to do. Grew up in upstate NY so feel buffalo wings are a birthright and the Elbow Room bar in Elmira is an embassy to heaven. I also like playing the trivia games at BW3. And the ungodly noise covers up my fucking tinnitus. Beer doesn’t hurt either. Sadly they started legit in Buffalo. The third W used to be for Weck, another upstate specialty.
Anyhow. I digress, but was lead there, by the nose. I have come to the same conclusion about that ring as Sorce and Plant Dr. It is a cutting/layering scar that never goes away I am 95% certain. I also agree it can probably be reduced or disguised if one begins early enough by picking away the excess bark. Hell I do that all the time for the same reason for minor wiring scars. It works especially well on pines.
I hate them too but I need wings. Those little things barely qualify and the sauces are never quite right but it will just have to do. Grew up in upstate NY so feel buffalo wings are a birthright and the Elbow Room bar in Elmira is an embassy to heaven. I also like playing the trivia games at BW3. And the ungodly noise covers up my fucking tinnitus. Beer doesn’t hurt either. Sadly they started legit in Buffalo. The third W used to be for Weck, another upstate specialty.
Anyhow. I digress, but was lead there, by the nose. I have come to the same conclusion about that ring as Sorce and Plant Dr. It is a cutting/layering scar that never goes away I am 95% certain. I also agree it can probably be reduced or disguised if one begins early enough by picking away the excess bark. Hell I do that all the time for the same reason for minor wiring scars. It works especially well on pines.
namnhi
Masterpiece
30 years from now I will be bonsai full time. Will have plenty of time then...looking forward to the update.
Similar threads
