New bonsai garden, including koi pond!

[0soyoung]

That’s good to know. I don’t have any shade to speak of. Unless it’s late afternoon. I’ll plan accordingly.

Oh no!!
You've got to make a place in the pond for them to hide out - overhangs, lots of lilly pads or other aquatic cover. Otherwise, the herons will be by and leave you messages like 'So long, and thanks for all the fish'.


On the other hand, if your koi are big enough maybe they will leave a thankyou note, instead.

 

[Adair M]

There are six or seven plants of lily pads, and there are fish caves, there will be a bridge across a section of the pond, and there is a deep section for them to escape to.

I am aware of herons, and will deal with them if need be.

 

[Adair M]

Oh no!!
You've got to make a place in the pond for them to hide out - overhangs, lots of lilly pads or other aquatic cover. Otherwise, the herons will be by and leave you messages like 'So long, and thanks for all the fish'.


On the other hand, if your koi are big enough maybe they will leave a thankyou note, instead.

By the way, 0so, that avatar is creepy! Please change it.

 

[0soyoung]

An eye is creepy, but a rose is a rose.

Better, @Adair M?
Only because you asked/demanded.


I know. It was so bad that now you still see that creepy eye.
Am I right?

 

[amcoffeegirl]

It looking really nice.
Did you already mention appropriate gallons?
I may have missed that.

 

[Lorax7]

While it's a good idea to float the bags, make sure you don't leave them in the sun, you'll bake the fish. Put an umbrella out or something and float them in shade.

This makes no sense with respect to physics. The whole point of floating the bag is that the water inside the bag is in thermal contact with the pond water outside the bag. A thin plastic bag, while technically an insulator, doesn’t have much of an R value. The water temperature inside the bag is going to be continuously approaching equilibrium with the temperature of the pond. Human skin is also a thermal insulator. If you go swimming in a lake on a sunny day and the water temperature is 90 degrees Fahrenheit, you’re not going to get heatstroke while you’re immersed in the lake. You might get a sunburn, but that’s a UV radiation exposure problem, not an overheating problem.

I would make sure that the bags of fish were shaded prior to putting them in the water and I would make sure that the fish are released from the bag in a timely fashion (because the oxygen supply inside the bag is finite). I would also incrementally introduce some of the pond water into the bag to acclimate the fish to any difference in pH between the source water and the pond. I would not worry much about shading the bags once they’re in the water on the theory that they’re going to cook. There’s no rational reason for thinking that’s going to happen.

 

[Adair M]

It looking really nice.
Did you already mention appropriate gallons?
I may have missed that.

I have no idea. I guess I’ll get a clue when I get my water bill!

 

[kalare]

This makes no sense with respect to physics...

I have no idea why you decided to refute sound advice with a huge post that has nothing to do with the issue, and really seems only to try and make meet look stupid. You can talk about R values and thermodynamics till the cows come home but that's not the problem here. Note also that I'm quite familiar with the laws of physics and thermodynamics and deal with them daily in my profession. The issue is the greenhouse effect...

Stretch the same "no R value" plastic over some PVC frame and put it out in the sun with no air circulation and it'll heat up. The same will happen to the floating bag. Read any pond website on acclimating fish to your pond and they all say the same thing, float in shade. Add to that bags are usually convex and may exacerbate the problem. If rather not take the chance and I'd also rather err on the side of caution when giving my advice.

Anyways, apologies for the derail Adair. I'm super jealous! I wish I had room for such a large pond.

 

[leatherback]

I have no idea why you decided to refute sound advice with a huge post that has nothing to do with the issue

well.. with my limited understanding of the matter, he is not wrong. When I have been getting fish for my pond, I never was told to float the bags in the shade, even though I typically get them when I work on the pond: Mid-summer days. But then again, why risk it.

@Adair M do consult the fish dealer as to when to add fish; You might have to let the pond settle for longer to stabilize PH, salts etc and then test the water before putting fish in there, and getting your plant filter settled. Else you might see nutrient buildup and algal bloom before everything gets going. Maybe less of an issue if you have a heavily filtered system. When putting my natural pond with only native fish in the garden, I was told to wait 2 months for the plants to get settled.

 

[Adair M]

well.. with my limited understanding of the matter, he is not wrong. When I have been getting fish for my pond, I never was told to float the bags in the shade, even though I typically get them when I work on the pond: Mid-summer days. But then again, why risk it.

@Adair M do consult the fish dealer as to when to add fish; You might have to let the pond settle for longer to stabilize PH, salts etc and then test the water before putting fish in there, and getting your plant filter settled. Else you might see nutrient buildup and algal bloom before everything gets going. Maybe less of an issue if you have a heavily filtered system. When putting my natural pond with only native fish in the garden, I was told to wait 2 months for the plants to get settled.

View attachment 257097

View attachment 257096

Nice pond! How many fish did you put in initially?

 

[Bolero]

I would wait at least a couple weeks to add fish maybe longer....wait til the pond stabilizes and has clear water 24/7...…………..adding trees and additional ground/pond cover will be unsettleing to the pond's water and not a good environment for Koi/Goldfish...how deep is the deepest part of your pond ???

 

[Adair M]

I would wait at least a couple weeks to add fish maybe longer....wait til the pond stabilizes and has clear water 24/7...…………..adding trees and additional ground/pond cover will be unsettleing to the pond's water and not a good environment for Koi/Goldfish...how deep is the deepest part of your pond ???

The deepest part is about 3 1/2 feet.

It is getting clearer. There was a lot of foam behind the skimmer this morning. It looks like the stuff that collects in a protein skimmer in a salt water reef tank. The water level hardly dropped at all. Maybe 1/8 inch.

I’m going to be working on more edge treatments today.

 

[PaulH]

I'd start with a few "feeder" goldfish until the nitrifying bacteria are established in your pond. Nitrate and nitrite levels should be expected to spike in the first month which can kill fish. Once the bacteria population is established the nitrogen levels will drop and you can add more expensive koi.
Beautiful pond!

 

[BunjaeKorea]

So when can I move in?

 

[Bolero]

Will you have a special area at the pool for Bonsai ?? or just spot them around the edges ?? also I would judiciously place some Weeping Willow around the pond maybe at the Waterfall.
i visit regularly 2 places that have Koi Ponds. The Flower Market, Dundee, MI & UM Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor...both have several large Koi maybe 2 footers or so that stay deep until people are spotted then they rise looking for a handout, they are all colors...and magnificent looking...

 

[Dav4]

You gotta get at least one large granite stone lantern and one largish Japanese maple that dips down and weeps over the water.

 

[coh]

well.. with my limited understanding of the matter, he is not wrong. When I have been getting fish for my pond, I never was told to float the bags in the shade, even though I typically get them when I work on the pond: Mid-summer days. But then again, why risk it.

That would be my feeling (why risk it).

But, I think you are right. The greenhouse effect will work if there is something inside the bag that absorbs the suns energy and converts it to heat. That's what happens in a closed car, or if you were to put plastic sheeting up on a greenhouse frame in the sun. But other than the fish, which presumably are floating below the water surface, there really isn't anything to absorb the suns energy. So I would think any heating would be minimal.

 

[Saddler]

You gotta get at least one large granite stone lantern and one largish Japanese maple that dips down and weeps over the water.

Ever since I saw the Japanese TV show Japanese Style Orginator I have wanted a granite lantern. Seeing how they are made and learning their placement is signifying a particularly beautiful view. I just need a garden with a view to justify one, like you have Adair.

 

[Adair M]

I'd start with a few "feeder" goldfish until the nitrifying bacteria are established in your pond. Nitrate and nitrite levels should be expected to spike in the first month which can kill fish. Once the bacteria population is established the nitrogen levels will drop and you can add more expensive koi.
Beautiful pond!

We added bacteria already. The pond plants came from other ponds, so there’s bacteria there’s too. But, without fish, there’s nothing producing ammonia, so there’s nothing for the bacteria to feed on at this point.

This is a fairly large pond with a large under-bog under ground pool of water. Large ponds are far more stable than small ponds. Sure, the water chemistry will fluctuate, but it’s designed to be pretty much self sustaining.

Guys, I used to have a salt water reef tank. Compared to that, maintaining a koi pond is a piece of cake!

 

[Adair M]

Will you have a special area at the pool for Bonsai ?? or just spot them around the edges ?? also I would judiciously place some Weeping Willow around the pond maybe at the Waterfall.
i visit regularly 2 places that have Koi Ponds. The Flower Market, Dundee, MI & UM Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor...both have several large Koi maybe 2 footers or so that stay deep until people are spotted then they rise looking for a handout, they are all colors...and magnificent looking...View attachment 257146View attachment 257147

Weeping willow is the LAST tree I would ever plant near a rubber liner pond! Those things have extraordinarily invasive roots! They can break waterlines trying to get to the water in the pipe!

That pond you posted is a concrete koi pond. A whole different approach than my pond. My pond is an “eco-system” style pond.