New SW White Pine
- Thread starter bonsairxmd
- Start date
I gotta ask...
Just how much did you pay for that?
Look, I've been doing bonsai 40 plus years. I've never even heard of SW white pine before. Maybe given 20 years of expert care that tree will turn into something.
There is nothing there to "style". It needs to simply "grow" for at least 5 years.
Brent has some great stuff, but this isn't it.
If you are determined to work with tree, wire the trunk to get some movement.
Just how much did you pay for that?
Look, I've been doing bonsai 40 plus years. I've never even heard of SW white pine before. Maybe given 20 years of expert care that tree will turn into something.
There is nothing there to "style". It needs to simply "grow" for at least 5 years.
Brent has some great stuff, but this isn't it.
If you are determined to work with tree, wire the trunk to get some movement.
Paulsur
Sapling
It does need to put on additional girth and to bark up. That will indeed involve years of growth.
The good thing is those years will teach you how to deal with the different seasons for this species and it's unique growth habits. You might want to bring to the local Bonsai club to get additional advice from locals. It will be important to not allow that whorl of branches to cause trunk swelling at that location, so you will need to make some careful pruning selections at the right time of year.
I have a Japanese black pine I bought from Brent about 4 years ago that I have been growing in a pond basket teaching myself black pine care. It is just now beginning to get that characteristic bark.
The good thing is those years will teach you how to deal with the different seasons for this species and it's unique growth habits. You might want to bring to the local Bonsai club to get additional advice from locals. It will be important to not allow that whorl of branches to cause trunk swelling at that location, so you will need to make some careful pruning selections at the right time of year.
I have a Japanese black pine I bought from Brent about 4 years ago that I have been growing in a pond basket teaching myself black pine care. It is just now beginning to get that characteristic bark.
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bonsairxmd
Shohin
Thanks for the positive feedback. Very helpful. Can you point out the whorl of branches on my images? Does a whorl just refer to a group of branches in one area? Please pardon my ignorance
Paulsur
Sapling
Correct, the term whorl is often used with pine species that have a habit of putting out opposing branches at the same internode. If you look at pines in the wild, this gives them an interesting tiered look.
http://amestrib.com/sections/news/ames-and-story-county/nature-photo-whorls-white-pine-branches.html
But in bonsai where you are working with a much smaller piece of material this will cause the tree to bulge at the whorl. You need branches to grow and mature the tree, so you have to be selective when to remove those opposing branches. That is where experience with pines in general and the species are important.
This one has really nice bark and movement, but is collected from the wild, and is far older.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12268-southwestern-white-pine-pinus-strobiformis
If you just planted in this container you have it in, keep it there and focus this year on keeping it alive. By all means bring it to your local club where you can discuss with members who have been growing pine bonsai in your locale for many years. They can get you started on right track about making some of those branch decisions when it comes time.
http://amestrib.com/sections/news/ames-and-story-county/nature-photo-whorls-white-pine-branches.html
But in bonsai where you are working with a much smaller piece of material this will cause the tree to bulge at the whorl. You need branches to grow and mature the tree, so you have to be selective when to remove those opposing branches. That is where experience with pines in general and the species are important.
This one has really nice bark and movement, but is collected from the wild, and is far older.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12268-southwestern-white-pine-pinus-strobiformis
If you just planted in this container you have it in, keep it there and focus this year on keeping it alive. By all means bring it to your local club where you can discuss with members who have been growing pine bonsai in your locale for many years. They can get you started on right track about making some of those branch decisions when it comes time.
iant
Chumono
Come on Adair,
No need to be so negative about this poor little tree. How is it that you're able to predict where it will be in 20 years?
Here's what I've done with mine from Brent so far. It's only been 3 yrs. I'm going to bring the curve a lot tighter in the next month and get the two open sections of trunk much closer together then build a top over the middle. I don't care if it's not a world class tree... I'm just having fun with it. Here's a set of photos from when I got it to where it is now. As I said in the other thread they're pretty easy to bend.
note: Couldn't get the 2nd photo to be first...
Also there's a little inverse taper here and there where I neglected it and let too many branches in a whorl last for too long. It's a learning tree.
I also might end up just using the bottom 3 inches and getting rid of the whole top if it doesn't work out the way I like it.
Just wanted to let you know bonsairxmd that bending is an option for you in your design
Ian
No need to be so negative about this poor little tree. How is it that you're able to predict where it will be in 20 years?
Here's what I've done with mine from Brent so far. It's only been 3 yrs. I'm going to bring the curve a lot tighter in the next month and get the two open sections of trunk much closer together then build a top over the middle. I don't care if it's not a world class tree... I'm just having fun with it. Here's a set of photos from when I got it to where it is now. As I said in the other thread they're pretty easy to bend.
note: Couldn't get the 2nd photo to be first...
Also there's a little inverse taper here and there where I neglected it and let too many branches in a whorl last for too long. It's a learning tree.
I also might end up just using the bottom 3 inches and getting rid of the whole top if it doesn't work out the way I like it.
Just wanted to let you know bonsairxmd that bending is an option for you in your design
Ian
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You are right, I was a little too harsh. I feel Brent should have told the Original Poster that this will take years to grow out. Too often a beginner gets sold a stick in a pot and then comes here and asks, "what do I do with it?" And too often they expect that someone will say "do this, do that, and you will have a world class bonsai in two years!"
Well, it just aint so.
Unfortunately, here in the USA, beginners have to start with very poor material. Because there just isn't any quality "bonsai stock" at affordable prices. In Japan, there is.
This tree isn't a good "learning tree". There aren't enough branches to prune and wire.
Brent says this tree should be treated like a JBP. Which means it can be decandled. But if he does that, there's no trunk growth. How is he going to learn from that?
So, to answer the question, "What do I do with it?" , we first must ask, "what do you want the tree to look like in 20 years?"
Then we can map out a plan.
Well, it just aint so.
Unfortunately, here in the USA, beginners have to start with very poor material. Because there just isn't any quality "bonsai stock" at affordable prices. In Japan, there is.
This tree isn't a good "learning tree". There aren't enough branches to prune and wire.
Brent says this tree should be treated like a JBP. Which means it can be decandled. But if he does that, there's no trunk growth. How is he going to learn from that?
So, to answer the question, "What do I do with it?" , we first must ask, "what do you want the tree to look like in 20 years?"
Then we can map out a plan.
bonsairxmd
Shohin
I wasn't expecting it to be a world class bonsai in two years. Everyone has to start somewhere and learn. I've seen lots of sticks in a bonsai pot from retailers and don't consider this to be one of them. I'm trying to learn and ask advice to do things correctly but negative feedback is not helpful.
All right then, lets start...
What style of tree do you want this to be?
Upright? Cascade? Tall and skinny? Short and fat?
Because this tree could be any of those. It all depends on what you do to it over the next couple years.
What style of tree do you want this to be?
Upright? Cascade? Tall and skinny? Short and fat?
Because this tree could be any of those. It all depends on what you do to it over the next couple years.
bonsairxmd
Shohin
Ok Thanks. Informal upright if possible. Likely a larger tree since I think needle reduction on SW white pines can only get down to 1.5-2" max. (I'm also trying to find a JBP to work with as we discussed in another thread)
-Chad
-Chad
october
Masterpiece
Are you familar with creating yamadori style trees. It is when you raffia the whole tree, wire, then put drastic bends, coil and tighten the whole tree into a twisted, compact image. If this tree is flexible enough, that might be an option. If you do not go that route, as mentioned earlier, you are looking at abouit 15-20 years before this tree really can become something.
If you search threads on this site and look for one titled "One more time, Yamadori style junipers" by member Smoke. It provides all the instruction you will need.
Rob
If you search threads on this site and look for one titled "One more time, Yamadori style junipers" by member Smoke. It provides all the instruction you will need.
Rob
iant
Chumono
I agree with Rob. That's exactly what I'd do with it.
Ian
Ian
bonsaibp
Omono
I wasn't sure what it was either so I went to Brent's site- here is his description - sounds like it could be an interesting material. I wonder just how fast the trunk will bulk up? Backbudding on old wood is a big plus but 11/2-2" needles mean a fairly large tree is necessary.
7370 Pinus strobiformis (Southwestern White Pine) S\M\-20ø\Ls\B Tall fast growing five needled pine from the Southwest with blue green foliage much like Japanese White Pine. Very drought and heat resistant. I believe this pine has a lot of potential for larger bonsai and will make an acceptable substitute for Japanese White Pine in the hotter and drier sections of the US where growing Pinus parviflora is difficult. Needle length can be reduced to about 1 1/2 to 2 inches from its full length of about 4 inches. It has the same smooth gray bark as other white pines. It is vigorous and fast growing, developing a sizeable trunk much more quickly than Japanese White Pine. Another fascinating feature of this species is its great ability to bud back on older wood, much better than either Japanese White or Black Pine, or Eastern White Pine, Pinus strobus. I have done heavy trunk chops on this pine, back to a lower branch, and they nearly always succeed, throwing lots of new buds on the remaining trunk. I don't know how this species will perform in the north or the more humid portions of the country, but by all accounts it is quite cold hardy. Our 2 3/4 inch pots are unpruned seedlings. One gallon size plants are at least five years old and have been pruned down to 12 to 16 inches to force back budding.
ONE GALLON SIZE $30
7370 Pinus strobiformis (Southwestern White Pine) S\M\-20ø\Ls\B Tall fast growing five needled pine from the Southwest with blue green foliage much like Japanese White Pine. Very drought and heat resistant. I believe this pine has a lot of potential for larger bonsai and will make an acceptable substitute for Japanese White Pine in the hotter and drier sections of the US where growing Pinus parviflora is difficult. Needle length can be reduced to about 1 1/2 to 2 inches from its full length of about 4 inches. It has the same smooth gray bark as other white pines. It is vigorous and fast growing, developing a sizeable trunk much more quickly than Japanese White Pine. Another fascinating feature of this species is its great ability to bud back on older wood, much better than either Japanese White or Black Pine, or Eastern White Pine, Pinus strobus. I have done heavy trunk chops on this pine, back to a lower branch, and they nearly always succeed, throwing lots of new buds on the remaining trunk. I don't know how this species will perform in the north or the more humid portions of the country, but by all accounts it is quite cold hardy. Our 2 3/4 inch pots are unpruned seedlings. One gallon size plants are at least five years old and have been pruned down to 12 to 16 inches to force back budding.
ONE GALLON SIZE $30
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bonsairxmd
Shohin
To make this into an informal upright, you need to have some curve to the trunk. The first branch should be on the outside of the curve. The apex of the tree should be over the base (nebari). The curves of the trunk should become less pronounced as it gets closer to the apex.
In Brent's description, he recommended this species to be a "larger" bonsai. Since what you have is a young whip, you need to grow it. So, do you know anything about wiring? You should wire the trunk into a broad curve, positioning a branch on the outside of the first curve.
Next, you should plant this in a colander with good bonsai soil. And feed the heck out of it to induce growth.
In Brent's description, he recommended this species to be a "larger" bonsai. Since what you have is a young whip, you need to grow it. So, do you know anything about wiring? You should wire the trunk into a broad curve, positioning a branch on the outside of the first curve.
Next, you should plant this in a colander with good bonsai soil. And feed the heck out of it to induce growth.
bonsairxmd
Shohin
Ok. Yes. I know how to wire trees. It is currently in Boon's mix. Thanks for the advice Adair
